XR30 G5 Blues immediately tripping GFCI

[Martingale]

I recently bought two new XR30 G5 Blues and noticed my GFCI was tripping. After plugging devices in one at a time I realized either of these radions will immediately trip a GFCI by themselves. None of my other devices trip the GFCI, and I’ve tested this across multiple GFCI receptacles.

Anyone else experience this or thoughts on what might be the issue?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I recently bought two new XR30 G5 Blues and noticed my GFCI was tripping. After plugging devices in one at a time I realized either of these radions will immediately trip a GFCI by themselves. None of my other devices trip the GFCI, and I’ve tested this across multiple GFCI receptacles.

Anyone else experience this or thoughts on what might be the issue?

What's the story behind the gfci to cancel that out, it hasn't been replaced recently? Do you have a gfci checker you could test it with?

 

[Martingale]

What's the story behind the gfci to cancel that out, it hasn't been replaced recently? Do you have a gfci checker you could test it with?

The GFCI receptacle is maybe 3 months old, and the radions are brand new. By GFCI checker do you mean the tools that trip the GFCI and check that the outlet is wired correctly? Yeah, I can verify everything works that way. I re-checked them causing the trips on a GFCI breaker circuit and then also a plug-in GFCI.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

The GFCI receptacle is maybe 3 months old, and the radions are brand new. By GFCI checker do you mean the tools that trip the GFCI and check that the outlet is wired correctly? Yeah, I can verify everything works that way. I re-checked them causing the trips on a GFCI breaker circuit and then also a plug-in GFCI.

That does seem strange and now since you mentioned gfci braker also, these are things you can tell the manufacturer because it's probably going to be a light issue, but atleast you can run through everything you checked with them to assure them you know its not your electrical causing the issues.

I would still throw a gfci checker in the receptacle to see it say "correct" and push the button to trip the GFCI button, then if you needed pictures of that it would be great for the light manufacturer.

Good luck with this

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Does it trip as soon as you plug it in, or does it trip when the light turns on, or is it after it's on for a while then trips?

 

[Steve Zee]

You asked for ideas… So just a reminder that GFCI’s work because they are detecting current leakage and this leakage is cumulative. Meaning, if the trip setting is for US standards (UL943A) then it must trip before reaching 6mA. But because every device you plug in will have a certain amount of leakage, finding the issue can be difficult. Think of the “spill the beans” game where the one bean doesn’t tip the bucket but it’s the one bean that gets the blame. If you think this is a possibility then I would try plugging things in one by one in different orders to see if you can find the culprit that might be “spilling the beans.” Otherwise, adding an additional GFCI for a isolated device is a very effective alternative… again, you asked.

 

[Martingale]

You asked for ideas… So just a reminder that GFCI’s work because they are detecting current leakage and this leakage is cumulative. Meaning, if the trip setting is for US standards (UL943A) then it must trip before reaching 6mA. But because every device you plug in will have a certain amount of leakage, finding the issue can be difficult. Think of the “spill the beans” game where the one bean doesn’t tip the bucket but it’s the one bean that gets the blame. If you think this is a possibility then I would try plugging things in one by one in different orders to see if you can find the culprit that might be “spilling the beans.” Otherwise, adding an additional GFCI for a isolated device is a very effective alternative… again, you asked.

Plugging either of the radions in individually trips the breaker. If I remove the radions but plug everything else back in, there isnt any issue.

Does it trip as soon as you plug it in, or does it trip when the light turns on, or is it after it's on for a while then trips?

It trips immediately.

 

[bobnicaragua]

Replace the GFCI outlet with a standard outlet.

 

[Steve Zee]

Plugging either of the radions in individually trips the breaker. If I remove the radions but plug everything else back in, there isnt any issue.

It trips immediately.

Look, I know it’s not a popular idea in this forum but it’s possible that there is excessive leakage in the light (even brand new). Meaning, there could be a potential problem and a possibly dangerous situation. But also possible is the fact LED’s have been a nightmare for years in our industry (GFCI manufacturing) because of the harmonics involved trying to easily dim/control intensity through AIO power supplies and LED drivers. Without filtering specifically designed to reduce the neutral load occurring for the imbalances, it is sometimes seen as false leakage and trips the GFI. The only real way to test is with a current leakage meter (Not cheap $350?) but it will tell you where or what device is causing the problem. Devices sold in the US must have leakage under 0.5mA… Almost nothing! You should also know that removing the GFCI with a standard outlet is not a safe option but many here will suggest just that.

 

[oreo54]

I recently bought two new XR30 G5 Blues and noticed my GFCI was tripping. After plugging devices in one at a time I realized either of these radions will immediately trip a GFCI by themselves. None of my other devices trip the GFCI, and I’ve tested this across multiple GFCI receptacles.

Anyone else experience this or thoughts on what might be the issue?

There are generally 2 causes.
1) Leakage current most likely in the power supply exceeding 5mA.
Most power supplies leak somewhat afaict.

2) Radio frequency interference. Rfi.
Switching power supplies/ led drivers can leak rfi

Of course most normal humans wouldn't know how to test this or have the equipment to figure out which of these it is.

Either way Radion should be informed.
Since you did the "only device" test and on multiple gfci's it is unlikely to be your fault ( pun unintended).

I suppose with some creativity one could see if it was the power supply or the light head.
Using just the power supply and some passive load instead of the light itself could prove which component is bad.

Couldn't tell you exactly how to do this though.

Now even this doesn't rule out " your brand" of GFCI aren't just overly sensitive to the lights particular rfi emissions, assuming they are all the same brand of course.

My " gut instinct" is always the power supplies.

 

[Steve Zee]

Just to throw my 2 cents in... I daily troubleshoot mass quantities of LED's with GFCI's- like huge component LED walls and display's used on live shows and broadcast sets with GFCI's. It's almost always a LED driver. LED manufactures are slow to cleaning up their harmonics with power factor correcting. If anyone wants a deeper dive : https://www.manufacturer.lighting/info/37/ - Older but relevant article. There is also a White Paper on how bad it's gotten to transmission lines.

Things to try with absence of a current leakage meter: Assuming the light remembers the last setting when looses power, return all settings on the light itself factory and bring all channels to full by using a non GFCI source. Switch back to GFCI and see if it still trips. One phase or channel with half the current of another causes "phantom current" back on a neutral thus confusing the GFCI circuit.

And like mentioned before, some conventional GFCI's are better than others. I've personally had good luck with the latest HUBBELL brand. Especially the latest filter pack for RFI. Good Luck. Otherwise, I think Radion owes you an explanation.