Yellow Tang Prices

[TeeJay87]

Can you prove your assertion? stating a company is partaking in these actions without any evidence other than personal anecdotal experience doesn't make a strong case and is very bold

Look - I responded to a thread talking about yellow tangs and HLLE, so others who may be wondering why only their captive breds have HLLE can learn that it may not be their fault for improper nutrition or the other reasons people give for HLLE. I didn’t come to build up a scientific theory. I support captive breeding (that’s why I bought them). I’m not here to destroy anyone’s reputation; my point is HLLE should be disclosed, which is just constructive criticism from someone who wasted time/money thinking something was wrong with my tank/practices. If you are curious, feel free to Google “Biota” “Yellow Tang” “HLLE”, do 20 minutes of reading and then repeat the process but swap out “Biota” and put in “Hawaii”.

 

[Tamberav]

The color seems to come in with the Biota yellow tangs.

It also seems to me that every one I've seen has HLLE scars on its head.

I have a wild Hawaii one I paid $60 for before the ban and it had HLLE. See wild purples with it too. Wholesalers probably have them in a copper soup.

 

[Tamberav]

Okay, if you read ALL of my responses on here, I never said it was the price of a Biota. I was talking about when you could buy wild caught. And as for the 300 to 400, again in my many messages in here, I am talking about what you see in LFS, NOT from Biota.

LFS I used, biota captive bred was $100

Yours is just ripping you off

 

[PharmrJohn]

I have a wild Hawaii one I paid $60 for before the ban and it had HLLE. See wild purples with it too. Wholesalers probably have them in a copper soup.

LOL, the last time I bought a YT, it ran me $19.99 plus the Governor's Cut!

 

[areefer01]

So you don’t have a Biota YT or a Biota Regal Angelfish, which are the fish in question here. Also I bought the Regal from Reef Beauties because it was discounted $30 lower than Biota’s price and the YT from Dr Reef because it was quarantined and discounted from Biota’s price. I’m guessing you bought straight from Biota. Some types of captive bred fish may just be more prone to HLLE, and/or Biota may be culling those fish in your list for abnormalities more aggressively because there is less demand for the fish you have vs. the extremely popular YT and Regals. I don’t have all the answers; only Biota can share their culling practices, HLLE rates, HLLE rates to 3rd party sellers, etc.

But I do know I have had only 2 fish with HLLE / genetic abnormalities, and they are my only 2 Biota captive bred fish. BTW, I say genetic abnormalities because I realized I didn’t even mention that my YT has one normal and one tiny/messed up pelvic fin that doesn’t function well. In spite of the fin and HLLE, YT seems perfectly normal and healthy from what I can tell and is growing rapidly.

You said, "I didn't realize this was common with Biota captive breds until doing some searching just now" and, "I did not buy directly from Biota and my guess is Biota identifies and ships out HLLE fish to 3rd party sellers"

I shared my experience that with over 20 Biota fish and I've not seen it. You shouldn't guess or assume. I've purchased directly from Biota and through third party sources one of which is Live Aquaria. In fact I didn't list those fish being 7 Sapphire Damsels and 3 Fork Tail Blenny. If it was so common I should have seen at least one. Don't you think? You are stating a vendor routes imperfect fish to 3rd party resellers and keeps the perfects and being called out on it.

Personally speaking - you purchased from Reef Beauties and Dr. Reef. I'd suggest you reach out to them about your concerns and why it wasn't disclosed.

 

[TeeJay87]

You said, "I didn't realize this was common with Biota captive breds until doing some searching just now" and, "I did not buy directly from Biota and my guess is Biota identifies and ships out HLLE fish to 3rd party sellers"

I shared my experience that with over 20 Biota fish and I've not seen it. You shouldn't guess or assume. I've purchased directly from Biota and through third party sources one of which is Live Aquaria. In fact I didn't list those fish being 7 Sapphire Damsels and 3 Fork Tail Blenny. If it was so common I should have seen at least one. Don't you think? You are stating a vendor routes imperfect fish to 3rd party resellers and keeps the perfects and being called out on it.

Personally speaking - you purchased from Reef Beauties and Dr. Reef. I'd suggest you reach out to them about your concerns and why it wasn't disclosed.

Since you don’t know, HLLE is a disease that almost entirely affects only tangs, angels and butterflies, so you’re 20 fish isn’t evidence of anything.

You bolded my quote. I said “my guess…” in regards to 3rd party sellers. It’s definitely interesting that I was able to buy a captive bred quarantined fish for cheaper than Biota was selling the same non-quarantined fish. The Regal was also cheaper, not to mention free shipping with 3rd party vs paying for shipping with Biota.

I’m not here to seek remuneration from where I bought the fish; just bringing my experience with my captive breds and their genetic abnormalities to light.

 

[areefer01]

Since you don’t know, HLLE is a disease that almost entirely affects only tangs, angels and butterflies, so you’re 20 fish isn’t evidence of anything.

There you go assuming again. Interesting enough I have a tang and butterflies (even one captive bred by Biota). Not my first rodeo.

You bolded my quote. I said “my guess…” in regards to 3rd party sellers. It’s definitely interesting that I was able to buy a captive bred quarantined fish for cheaper than Biota was selling the same non-quarantined fish. The Regal was also cheaper, not to mention free shipping with 3rd party vs paying for shipping with Biota.

I’m not here to seek remuneration from where I bought the fish; just bringing my experience with my captive breds and their genetic abnormalities to light.

Using words like common or saying things like Biota routes HLLE fish to third party vendors is misleading. How do you know the HLLE wasn't caused by the quarantine process (Copper exposure if it is used) or the running of carbon or stray voltage or any of the other possibilities? The only reason I brought up the source of purchase is because A, you mentioned it, and B you did not expect your animals to have what you believe is HLLE. So common sense says that is where you should be addressing your concerns.

Sounds like we disagree - world isn't ending. Hope your day is well.

 

[thedon986]

Isn't it understood, as best we can at the moment, that most common causes of HLLE come from conditions in the home aquarium? Wondering how one could assume that Biota is somehow able to breed out HLLE? My YT from Biota does not have HLLE, my last wild one did.

 

[TeeJay87]

There you go assuming again. Interesting enough I have a tang and butterflies (even one captive bred by Biota). Not my first rodeo.



Using words like common or saying things like Biota routes HLLE fish to third party vendors is misleading. How do you know the HLLE wasn't caused by the quarantine process (Copper exposure if it is used) or the running of carbon or stray voltage or any of the other possibilities? The only reason I brought up the source of purchase is because A, you mentioned it, and B you did not expect your animals to have what you believe is HLLE. So common sense says that is where you should be addressing your concerns.

Sounds like we disagree - world isn't ending. Hope your day is well.

Well we don’t just disagree; you’ve attacked my character saying that I’m “spreading misinformation”, “misleading”, etc.

None of us know the actual rates of HLLE in Biota YTs except for Biota, but here are some facts:

1) Some % of Biota YTs have HLLE (among other issues) and are being sold to customers that way. I don’t think it takes more than a 70 IQ brain and 20 minutes to confirm this with 99%+ confidence.

2) If I go to Biota’s site, there is no option for me to buy healthy but otherwise damaged/blemished YTs (damaged/deformed fins, HLLE, hole in head, etc).

With these 2 facts in mind, it seems it is luck of the draw whether you get a YT with HLLE or not. In my opinion, that is not a good customer experience and that’s the most generous thing you can say.

 

[blecki]

All you're actually seeing is selection bias. Specifically the lack of it.

When YTs were collected from the wild, first off, they did not collect fish that were this young. Second, YTs are so prolific and easy to collect that if they picked one up with obvious HLLE they could just throw it back.

When dealing with breeding, first, the fish are too young to know if they are more or less prone to HLLE; considering they arrive the size of a quarter and are still white - it isn't that they arrive with HLLE, but more that the lateral line fails to develop after you get them.

Still - I have received fish with HLLE from other vendors (Dr Reef actually) - It is not too uncommon for tangs to develop HLLE in quarantine. With proper nutrition it heals up just fine.

 

[areefer01]

Well we don’t just disagree; you’ve attacked my character saying that I’m “spreading misinformation”, “misleading”, etc.

None of us know the actual rates of HLLE in Biota YTs except for Biota, but here are some facts:

1) Some % of Biota YTs have HLLE (among other issues) and are being sold to customers that way. I don’t think it takes more than a 70 IQ brain and 20 minutes to confirm this with 99%+ confidence.

2) If I go to Biota’s site, there is no option for me to buy healthy but otherwise damaged/blemished YTs (damaged/deformed fins, HLLE, hole in head, etc).

With these 2 facts in mind, it seems it is luck of the draw whether you get a YT with HLLE or not. In my opinion, that is not a good customer experience and that’s the most generous thing you can say.

No, there is a disagreement with your unsubstantiated opinions being represented as facts.

 

[Biota_Marine]

So you don’t have a Biota YT or a Biota Regal Angelfish, which are the fish in question here. Also I bought the Regal from Reef Beauties because it was discounted $30 lower than Biota’s price and the YT from Dr Reef because it was quarantined and discounted from Biota’s price. I’m guessing you bought straight from Biota. Some types of captive bred fish may just be more prone to HLLE, and/or Biota may be culling those fish in your list for abnormalities more aggressively because there is less demand for the fish you have vs. the extremely popular YT and Regals. I don’t have all the answers; only Biota can share their culling practices, HLLE rates, HLLE rates to 3rd party sellers, etc.

But I do know I have had only 2 fish with HLLE / genetic abnormalities, and they are my only 2 Biota captive bred fish. BTW, I say genetic abnormalities because I realized I didn’t even mention that my YT has one normal and one tiny/messed up pelvic fin that doesn’t function well. In spite of the fin and HLLE, YT seems perfectly normal and healthy from what I can tell and is growing rapidly.

To clarify a bit in this post:

1. We do not sell to Reef Beauties, we only sell to a very small amount of online vendors and Reef Beauties is not one of them.
2. When fish have HLLE from us we do label them as blemished (see our hippo tang on our website) we don't sell blemished Yellow tang but can't speak for what happens at other stores after they received healthy specimens from us.

 

[Biota_Marine]

To clarify a bit in this post:

1. We do not sell to Reef Beauties, we only sell to a very small amount of online vendors and Reef Beauties is not one of them.
2. When fish have HLLE from us we do label them as blemished (see our hippo tang on our website) we don't sell blemished Yellow tang but can't speak for what happens at other stores after they received healthy specimens from us.

Additionally, we tell all stores and individuals we sell to not to prophylactically treat with harsh prophylactics like copper and similar because early stress in young fish can cause HLLE, also a reason why we recommend against other stressful actions like drip acclimation and not using an acclimation box when introducing to other tank inhabitants.

Stores and customers that have the most success with our animals aren't mixing them with wild fish after transit or treating them prophylactically when not needed. Myself and Felicia are always happy to answer customer service inquiries and help even if you received our animals from other vendors because we 100% stand behind the health of all of our animals.

Additionally, please let us know if the regal was listed as Biota when purchasing from Reef Beauties. I don't know much about the company but I see they have a low BBB rating.

 

[TeeJay87]

Additionally, we tell all stores and individuals we sell to not to prophylactically treat with harsh prophylactics like copper and similar because early stress in young fish can cause HLLE, also a reason why we recommend against other stressful actions like drip acclimation and not using an acclimation box when introducing to other tank inhabitants.

Stores and customers that have the most success with our animals aren't mixing them with wild fish after transit or treating them prophylactically when not needed. Myself and Felicia are always happy to answer customer service inquiries and help even if you received our animals from other vendors because we 100% stand behind the health of all of our animals.

Additionally, please let us know if the regal was listed as Biota when purchasing from Reef Beauties. I don't know much about the company but I see they have a low BBB rating.

It looks like you sell Captive Bred Regal Angels from Bali Aquarich, and Bali Aquarich sold to Reef Beauties. My mistake. Does Biota have any legal affiliation with Bali Aquarich?

 

[Biota_Marine]

It looks like you sell Captive Bred Regal Angels from Bali Aquarich, and Bali Aquarich sold to Reef Beauties. My mistake. Does Biota have any legal affiliation with Bali Aquarich?

We do sell Bali Aquarich captive bred animals but we have heard through the grapevine that many of the other distributors in the US aren't as great of taking care of young fish like we are so it leads to higher mortality rates or other issues.

Bali Aquarich fish are incredibly healthy and we have never had any issues with them both short and long term under our care, we often post photos and videos of them doing well at our facility when we get new batches in. Mr. Su and his team are incredibly talented breeders.

Many of these larger companies that also purchase wild collected fish put everything together in small cubicles in treated systems which is hard on young fish like that.

 

[code4]

My Yellow Tang is from Biota, for $165, free shipping since I bought other fish. Is beautiful. It is still in a 40 gallon breeder waiting for me to deem a tank I set up months ago is good enough for it. It needs a name. Already about 3 inches and I don't believe has any problems. Hard to see since it is a bit shy.

I recommend one. You already know why the prices are what they are. I admit to preferring captive bred. But will still get wild caught. I also purchased a tiny little Purple Masked angel. About 1 inch now and in a 20-gallon nursery tank. Along with 2 tiny mandarins. Just letting them grow.

Good luck with your new tank. I had one. Never set it up though. Long story but that is a beautiful tank. Enoy.

Shelley

 

[AUSXMD]

My Yellow Tang is from Biota, for $165, free shipping since I bought other fish. Is beautiful. It is still in a 40 gallon breeder waiting for me to deem a tank I set up months ago is good enough for it. It needs a name. Already about 3 inches and I don't believe has any problems. Hard to see since it is a bit shy.

I recommend one. You already know why the prices are what they are. I admit to preferring captive bred. But will still get wild caught. I also purchased a tiny little Purple Masked angel. About 1 inch now and in a 20-gallon nursery tank. Along with 2 tiny mandarins. Just letting them grow.

Good luck with your new tank. I had one. Never set it up though. Long story but that is a beautiful tank. Enoy.

Shelley

Thank you. That's not a bad price considering the ban. Maybe I'll look into getting one again. I'm not engaging the sophomoric people/posts on this thread. I'm sorry it turned nasty, and thank you for your response. Enjoy your tang! I feel like an aquarium isn't complete without one

 

[code4]

Thank you. That's not a bad price considering the ban. Maybe I'll look into getting one again. I'm not engaging the sophomoric people/posts on this thread. I'm sorry it turned nasty, and thank you for your response. Enjoy your tang! I feel like an aquarium isn't complete without one

Not your fault. I hope you find your perfect fish. If you do get mandarin's from Biota ever remember they are tiny. A nursery tank is how I went. Cycled well in advance and feed using Paul B's method along with a little frozen food. They grow fairly quickly.

Enjoy your tank and welcome back to the hobby

Shelley