Yet Another Turf Algae ID Thread (With Pics).

64Ivy · Jan 27, 2015

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[TD="class: alt1, bgcolor: #EBEBEB"]I've been battling this stuff for months now and have have lost a couple frags to being choked out by it. Resistant to everything but a hard scrubbing and then will return a few days later.

PO4 and NO3 parameters are well within acceptable limits (Hanna, Triton). Rock is BRS Pukani and HAD been treated with Lanthanum prior to DT introduction. Current regimen includes WC (RO/DI), GAC, cuc (Trochus snails, Tuxedo and diadema urchins), an increase in water flow, and manual removal.

Any other suggestions welcomed.

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brandon429 · Jan 28, 2015

Your problem is ideal for peroxide fix because nutrients aren't implicit in brush algae issues. Hitchhiking is

If you want to try it post these before pics in our r2r challenge thread on page 2 of this forum

On the rc and nr.com peroxide threads we have fixed about twenty of these issues w after pics. Yours is a nine day turnaround

64Ivy · Jan 30, 2015

I've always been a bit leery of going the chemical route to patch an issue, even temporarily. This time however I am pretty much at my wits end as this stuff does not respond to any treatment, bio or husbandry related. Obviously, before I start any new regimen, I try to read any and all info I can, particularly first person accounts, so I have read through your rc thread. Here is my situation:

This is a 500g barebottom reefank, 95% 'sps'. It is a part of a 650g system which includes a 40g 'lps' dominant tank and a 125g sump. I cannot remove the rockwork of my DT as I have nowhere to treat it separately (some pieces weigh well over 40lbs) and some are encrusted with large acropora. This algae covers more than half of the tank though which makes manual removal next to impossible so I guess the chemical route it is. Before I begin, is there a compare and contrast write up between peroxide and the product Algaefix which I also heard has it share of success. Any and all opinions are welcome, especially first person experiences. In the meantime, I'll give my trochus and urchins about another month. Not because I think it'll make a difference at this point but because I'm a wimp and I'm stalling.

Kinda need help with that too.

BigJim · Jan 30, 2015

Is it red turf algae or is it green algae with cyanobacteria covering it? I had great success with Mexican turbo snails when I was about to give up because of red turf algae. I had to pull some out so it was low enough for them to mow it down. It took less than a month for 12 turbo snails to wipe out the algae in my 55g tank. You will need to re-home most of the snails after the algae is gone so they don’t starve.

If it’s green and a little stalkier than gha, it might be a form of bryopsis. I had a form of bryopsis that did not have the feathery look to the stalks and Kent Tech M still killed it. It’s pretty safe if you take it slow but you will likely lose some inverts. You should also keep up with testing your alk and calcium if you treat with Tech M, since the increased magnesium seems to change the rate at which they are consumed by the corals.

Reefing Madness · Jan 30, 2015

Borrow someones Sea Hare. That baby will clean it up in no time.

brandon429 · Jan 30, 2015

Our giant peroxide threads ranging 60+ pages would be a headache to find a comparative tank for your issue

I'm aware of the algae fix marine it is valid to try and similar to peroxide in affect but there are still measurable slight differences

I have something that w give you a much better fighting change between the two, whichever you choose

For both, dosing the whole tank from the top is the last thing you would do. That treats targets and non targets equally so it stinks, although it works on many invaders anyway.

Here, we can see you have a totally nutrient independent invader. For this, invasive dinos, invasive macros, valonia, and many more there is no underlying cause, low po4 won't redo an invasion of those on most tanks, to any degree large cure threads can be collected to show results. Import equals invasion. These are direct kill, or direct grazer targets for sure.

You want two things here in your chemical ventures:
Non committal test areas

Submerged concentration dosing, not top water dosing per unit of volume

I'm picturing your home sized sps being mine, ever so careful to not RTN that whole tank...lower the photoperiod imo or diffuse the intensity down a bit during this treatment. Less intensity during treatments

For sure do nothing that could cause an untoward alk spike while dosing any oxidizers for sure

Be creative about contacting your doser to the target even if briefly, it beats top water dosing always. It can be as simple as using syringes to inject slowly right onto the patch, using underwater Saran Wrap pinned into place onto larger areas of the targeted rocks where accessible, system pumps off of course, and inject up under that. Whatever chem you use, amplify it to the target, and downplay it to the corals.

Even though its no small job, consider drain and treats, most sps tanks can be drained hours w no affect especially if you sw mist them while working. Simon Garrats reef that is auto drained for three hours three times a day is an ex
Clearly top water dosing is preferred for large tanks, but before going all out try some non committal tests

Find a rock you can remove easy and dry treat it with our p method just to see what ideals will reveal. As possible lead ins to drain and treats since they attack the sps the least of any situation where removal isn't an option....shoot a test rock with external algae fix marine as well to get full breadth comparison.

What I've seen this last decade while amassing large threads on it was how people will jump the plank and start top dosing full guns without any incremental short tests! Do underwater short testing of both p and AFM would be my offer. Ramp up!

The largest volume tank I worked on in the reefcentral peroxide thread was a 400 gal w invasive macros, they take well to top dosing. Your brush algae prefers emersed treatments for sure, small tests will reveal how they respond to the diluted attack required in such a large tank.

What a challenge we have here I love it. Keep posting pics of your ramp ups man

By all means consider grazer experiments, thats the only way whatsoever the real reefs keep this in check. It is never ever nutrient limited in our tanks or in nature. Direct attack is the only way, I guarantee that. Find the right grazer, luck will ensue

In the meantime, get to cheatin but go slo

brandon429 · Jan 30, 2015

Can you post a standing back fts just for another preparation brainstorm

64Ivy · Jan 31, 2015

Lotta food for thought up there. I'll get back with some questions in a day or so. In the meantime, here are a few more shots including the FTS. You can see why this won't be easy.

Detail of right side.

Single frag struggling to survive the muck.

AJsTank · Feb 5, 2015

I had it bad in my 400 that is 100% SPS about 6 months ago. I tried 3 Sea Hares, 4 different kinds of urchins, 50 Chitons, 300 snails of every type, 300 crabs of every type including emeralds, I tried Tangs, I tried Rabbits. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING touches turf algae. The Chitons barely munch on it, but you 100s and 100s because they are slow. I ended up pulling out every single piece of rock which was 450 lbs or more and scrubbing each piece and dipping it. I just looked yesterday and it's coming back and if I can't figure out how to tackle it this time around, I'm going to get out of the hobby. I already lost $4,000 I've spent on SPS and I have had it with this crap. You can search on R2R, RC, all the big forums, everyone gives you the same stupid answer "Keep your phosphates and nitrates down and bump up the clean up crew". I can't find 1 single thread anywhere, where someone has actually tackled the issue. It was obviously in my system still and I'm about done with it. As you can tell I'm extremely frustrated. lol

Also keep in mind that it thrives on undetectable excess nutrients. There's several people who went dark for 90 days and it didn't go away. I took a piece of rock covered with turf and tossed in the snow over night. I grabbed the rock the next day and put it in a bin that had some water in it. It had zero effect on it. It's invincible, I swear.

brandon429 · Feb 7, 2015

I have beaten it in my tank. it requries the most retreats of any invader, it does funtion independent of nutrients agreed. your options are find a grazer that works, or chemically burn it out with peroxide or algaefix marine. my own tank had this, its now eradicated. took work and about a year.

the only way to help tanks like this is to take action the first time its seen.

64Ivy · Feb 8, 2015

Okay, something interesting is happening here. Nearly a month ago, I'd ordered a new cuc which, upon the advice of a friend, consisted of trochus snails, plus Diadema (black, long-spined) and Mespilia (tuxedo) urchins. Usually, I'll just go for the Astraea and Cerith snails but they were proving useless in this case. Anyway, I ordered this new crop and while I can't say yet that they're definitely making an impact, I THINK I'm beginning to see a few positive signs, such as more bare patches in the rock work here and there. It seems that the Diademas in particular, are doing the bulk of the work.

I had planned to give this crew about a month before I embarked on any chemical regime anyway, given winter time is always a slow period for me regarding laying in new frags, etc. The problem, of course, this that this being a 500g, heavily infested tank, any progress seems minute and I even worry about the algae growing back over already cleaned areas by the time they 'finish'. What I've done in the interim is purchase several more, bringing my total to an even dozen. I'll study the impact and photograph the same areas as above to compare. Just letting you know.