Your LFS is on trial

Sea MunnKey · Dec 18, 2015

Sea MunnKey said:
Locally we have many lfs & fortunately for most of us, majority of lfs' are located within central Toronto vicinity. I only visit ones that I really trust the most & who I have good rapport with in terms of friendship and honesty. I do realise that there's haters of certain lfs and I for one do not want this negative aspect to influence my point of view. It's more like natural instinct and you can feel the good vibe when you communicate with individual lfs owners.

I have been friends with a few lfs owners ever since I started this saltwater hobby & over time we know each others family members ... you come to know their pains and sufferings (personal lives) and try to be there for them.

Certain lfs owner are not so willing to share their "hard to find" collections (via fragging) and what's really sad is when the collections ended up dead and can't be located nor collected anymore ... that's foolish and selfish IMO

NewsFish · Dec 18, 2015

I always want to know where the fish or coral was sourced from and how it was handled along the way. If it was taken from the wild in Indonesia or Thailand, there's an unfortunately high chance it was taken using cyanide or dynamite and then handed off many times between collectors, middlemen, wholesalers, distributors, etc. Neither of those situations bode well for the fish's health.

If it was taken from countries that do a better job of preserving their reefs, like Fiji or Australia, there's a much better chance it was captured without damaging practices, and because the trade is better regulated, it's probably been handed off less and in a more humane way. That should help it stay healthy, which protects your investment.

My local LFS doesn't do this yet - I get a vague "Indian Ocean" response a lot, which is pretty annoying - but I keep pushing for better information. Eventually, it'll happen. This hobby we love is (unintentionally) killing a lot of reefs in Asia. If we want it to be sustainable, we need to be asking these questions. If we don't, there's a good chance we won't have the selection we do now in a few years.

jetmaker · Dec 18, 2015

NewsFish said:
I always want to know where the fish or coral was sourced from and how it was handled along the way. If it was taken from the wild in Indonesia or Thailand, there's an unfortunately high chance it was taken using cyanide or dynamite and then handed off many times between collectors, middlemen, wholesalers, distributors, etc. Neither of those situations bode well for the fish's health.

If it was taken from countries that do a better job of preserving their reefs, like Fiji or Australia, there's a much better chance it was captured without damaging practices, and because the trade is better regulated, it's probably been handed off less and in a more humane way. That should help it stay healthy, which protects your investment.

My local LFS doesn't do this yet - I get a vague "Indian Ocean" response a lot, which is pretty annoying - but I keep pushing for better information. Eventually, it'll happen. This hobby we love is (unintentionally) killing a lot of reefs in Asia. If we want it to be sustainable, we need to be asking these questions. If we don't, there's a good chance we won't have the selection we do now in a few years.

Agree cynide kills more fish by far that live.

Derekchristopher763 · Dec 18, 2015

I'm sure most of you are familiar with the online retailer www.acanlord.com. Well, they are also my LFS as they are open on the weekends for walk-in customers. I feel very fortunate to live a few minutes away from them because they get some of the most amazing corals in, and I get to see them first hand in living color. I've been doing business with them since I got into the hobby years ago. I've done business with almost every major livestock retailer out there and nobody compares in terms of health, color, and customer service. Their husbandry practices are what have kept me going as all I've had to do is walk in their footsteps for a successful vibrant tank.

There are a ton of great questions to ask posted above by other members, so I won't repeat, however, one major bit of advice I would like to contribute to this thread...When buying from any LFS, take a look at their tanks and livestock before taking any advice on how to manage your own tank. A well kept tank can speak for itself. AcanLord's store is very VERY clean and well kept and I never have to worry about the health of the animals I purchase for my 500 gal mixed. Let's face it, this hobby comes along with a plethora of detrimental things that can destroy our tanks. It's our job to try to limit this for the sake of the animals. I have seen many fellow hobbyists leave the hobby because of bad advice from a LFS due to a business man shelling out advice on how to manage a tank instead of a true enthusiast. Just my two cents, but hope it helps.

Cheers!

Big65 · Dec 18, 2015

sc8kv123 said:
What questions do you ask your local fish/coral provider before you actually making a purchase? What have you been told that have turned you away from a purchase?

I'm still learning and want to know what I need to investigate before I make a purchase. I'm sure this will also help future newbie reefers to feel more confident in their purchases and their LFS. Thanks!

For me I look at the health of their display tanks first, this is the owners / franchise / chains image to the public and a defining foundation for what you can expect from its staff and or owner. If the tanks are clean with no slime or foul algae and no dead stock floating and the stock in the tanks are healthy and stocked then you have a store that is on the ball because their product is their image and the knowledge required to care for the stock in that image. If the tanks are rough and the stock is the same then I will find another store that meets my requirements and spend my money there. As for questions I ask where they get their stock from, if its wild captured then where and captive bred and cultivated how long has the breeder been in business. With hard line goods which is non living stock that always varies and no one asks the same things.

dale.thorpe · Dec 18, 2015

I had the best LFS store around. Phishy Business in Gahanna Ohio. Serdar was extremely knowledgeable and informative. Always took the time to make sure I was doing things right when I first started in the hobby. Every tank he had was always pristine. You never saw a stressed fish or coral. I've been to a lot of LFS and haven't found anything even remotely close. Too bad they went out of business.

metrokat · Dec 18, 2015

I have 3 stores that I give my business to. The one I frequent most often won't bag a fish unless we have a conversation about it. During which they find out about your system, what other fish you have and question you on your knowledge about the fish you are about to buy. If you happen to catch a junior staff member for a question or to bag something, they always go get a more experienced staff member to work with you. Their badges identify them as a trainee or a marine expert or freshwater expert or manager etc.

They take pride in their store and their knowledge. I have the greatest respect for their store policy. They know me extremely well at the store, and often times I will work with a few staff members when I go there. But it's always a nice surprise to be questioned by someone new and show them my reef pictures.

I've spoken about running a high nutrient system for my SPS dominated tank out loud and the new staff always get shocked. I enjoy that I suppose.

Shep · Dec 18, 2015

I think one of the best things is not asking but looking, look at the tanks, the corals, the fish, everything. Good shops are typically clean, well organized and the livestock will look healthy. If I walk into a shop and its a mess and there are 20 fish in a 10 gallon tank, I can pretty much guarantee you that I am walking out. If you want to ask something, it's dirty but ask them a dumb question (can I keep that achilles tang in my 20 gallon or do I need a gyre for my 5 gallon) this lets you know if they care more about money or helping you.

saltyhog · Dec 19, 2015

Most of what I need to know I can gain by observation in regards to fish. I do ask how long they have had the fish and they always are able to tell me within a few days. They gladly feed if I ask them to. They laugh at me because I bring my refractometer with me but they are happy for me to test their water. They don't routinely medicate with copper but they do treat fish appropriately if signs of illness are present. I like this as low dose copper hides ailments that become problematic soon after getting them home.

Best yet I've heard my LFS employees frankly and sincerely tell customers this fish or that coral aren't appropriate for your tank due to X, Y or Z. It's not a perfect store but in the last 6 months I've scored a Potter's wrasse that was eating and is now fat and sassy in my DT. I also got a C. cf. lanceolatus that is in the final few days of QT for $100.

saltyfilmfolks · Dec 19, 2015

Valkyrie said:
There is ONE LFS in this area that isn't a big box store. It's saltwater only and according to a few people it's a great place. I'm sure it is, IF you can wedge your way into their little "club". They're simply not beginner friendly. Every answer to a question is preceded by an eye roll while looking down their nose. Every time I've gone in there the only customers have been male and the owners are always open & friendly with them. They exit and they're left with me and the atmosphere shifts to disdain. I'm treated like I'm just a lookie-lu that is going to buy a few fish, let them die and be done with it. I'm not worth their time to share their passion and help me do things right. It sucks, because anything else is an hour or more away. I just keep chipping away at their shell. I haven't bought a single fish from them, but I have bought supplies and asked questions over the last year, I've done my best to show them I'm sincere, interested and willing to listen. THAT is why I have spent so much time reading everything I can get my hands on.

I will be looking for a SW fish store in Seattle or Tacoma eventually, but for now, this is the place I go. I *DO* trust them to not steer me wrong and to not sell me a fish that isn't ready or shouldn't be sold. They DO take wonderful care of their fish and tanks. They just haven't warmed up to me yet, maybe.

@There is ONE LFS in this area that isn't a big box store..........
Yelp is a powerful thing. ...Jerks

Moose_1984 · Dec 20, 2015

I've been an aquarium hobbyist for nearly 20 years, in both fresh and marine systems, while living in Toronto, South Florida, and Tampa Bay. In that time I've dealt with a few dozen LFS, and for the past two years I've worked at one (I'm now the livestock manager).

As a hobbyist, appearance matters up to a point; I want to see a shop that is maintained (I never expected pristine, this is a messy business) and livestock that is both healthy and suitably housed. If the shop has a display tank, so much the better--that's not laid out for sales and reflects both design and husbandry ideas. The staff (from minion to owner) must be knowledgeable and at least cordial. On the knowledge side, I've learned to allow for variations across a shop's staff; I'm happy to see people who know the general stuff but also have a specialty (fish, SPS, NPS, zoas, whatever). Even now, I'm a customer from time to time (we don't have EVERYTHING) and I'm a frequent customer at wholesale/import places as well as farms. The same standards apply.

SO what are you looking for?

are the livestock habitats clean/suitable/orderly?
do you see pests/disease?
is the staff knowledgeable and courteous?
are prices reasonable? <--do not compare to private, garage-based sellers who have no overhead or taxes to pay
will the staff tell you "no"? (not every animal is suited to every tank or hobbyist; an ethical LFS will cheerfully say "no")

As a manager, I've actually become far more demanding about where livestock is sourced and what condition it's in. Captive-bred is #1, followed by responsible and sustainable fisheries and collection agents. I likely won't tell you where we purchased the animal (unless it's ORA or ReefGen) because I've worked hard to develop a complex supply chain. I 100% will tell you (whether you ask or not, sorry!) where the animal originated, when we got it, what it's eating (here, watch it eat!), how it's behaving (oops, that firefish is a sociopath! that acro ate a monti!), and where in your tank it will succeed (if at all).

Final point: as the title says, your LFS is ALWAYS on trial. Just remember to use the guillotine sparingly.

kattz · Dec 20, 2015

We have a local store that a lot of people think is overpriced and the people are rude or in the case of the kids that work there, don't know anything. Regarding the kids, yeah, spot on. But I don't need anyone to sell me a fish. This particular shop has an owner that believes in variety and mass quantity. You want a purple tang? He will have 5-20 of them. Feed them, pick out the one that eats the best, take it home. Price is 10-20% more than online, and so what? The shop is wet and messy and old but the livestock rocks. You don't go there for corals, you go there for fish. Gerber's Saltwater Warehouse in Moraine, OH.

I bought a fish from Phishy Business in Gahanna, OH about 2 years ago. The shop is another one that rocks, but has awesome corals as well. So stupid me, I never quarantined back then. Brought the fish home, acclimated it, and put it into my system. It had ich, and we couldn't stop it. We lost everything except our corals. I learned two valuable lessons. One, always quarantine. Two, the fish from Gerber's hung in there long after the other fish wee dead. So yes, stronger fish.

That's the quality I like to see.

I don't need to interrogate an LFS to make a buying decision. All I have to do is look at the tanks and what they carry. If the tanks are maintained and the stock look healthy, that's all I need to see. If the stock is "meh" and the store is focused on bling - LED's, bottles of miracle tank treatments, etc, I'll usually walk out.

bevo5 · Dec 20, 2015

I never trust anybody is trying to sell me something. I've had tanks for 25 years (crap that's depressing) and I've been sold lies so many times it's hard to remember them all. BUT - that's 100% my fault and I've learned that every single purchase needs to be researched before it comes home.

But if I see a dead fish in a tank i'm not buying anything. I understand fish die and the turnover makes it more likely, but at least get the fish out.