Zeovit VS Aquaforest

[Peng]

Let's talk about the two systems designed to achieve ultra low nutrient conditions. I'm currently planning to decrease my NO3 (1.5ppm) a little further to get more pastel (intermediate level, not too pastel) looking colors on my acros. However I like to minimize the number of things I need to change and add. Currently considering either KZ or AF. However despite using their color enhancers I have no experience in using zeolite and do not know if in long term KZ is a simpler / more stable solution. With AF recommending using zeolites, carbon, phosphate minus - 3 types of media I'm a little turned away by this since I only need zeolites for KZ system. What are your thoughts and opinions?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Blade*13]

No first hand experience yet. But I am planning on using kz on my 60g cube I'm getting ready to setup

 

[David Cher]

KZ any time . it is a proven product.

 

[Peng]

Thinking about KZ over AF too... I'm just afraid of starving corals too much

 

[ksfulk]

ZeoVit doesnt directly reduce your Nitrates - they reduce ammonia, which become nitrates eventually, when processed by the bacteria in the tank. You'll eventually see a reduction in the nitrates through attrition (since there wont be the building blocks available to create nitrates), but its not doing it directly. I run the KZ system on my tank and I feed quite a bit of food and have a decent bioload in the tank. I dont dose a bunch of other random additives - just the three core components in the system (ZeoStart, ZeoBak, & SpongePower). I dont have any experience running AF, so I cant be of much help there.

I dont have pastel corals at all with my SPS, and Ive been running KZ Zeo since day 1 of this tank, and the entire tank is mainly SPS. Hope that helps

 

[Blade*13]

ZeoVit doesnt directly reduce your Nitrates - they reduce ammonia, which become nitrates eventually, when processed by the bacteria in the tank. You'll eventually see a reduction in the nitrates through attrition (since there wont be the building blocks available to create nitrates), but its not doing it directly. I run the KZ system on my tank and I feed quite a bit of food and have a decent bioload in the tank. I dont dose a bunch of other random additives - just the three core components in the system (ZeoStart, ZeoBak, & SpongePower). I dont have any experience running AF, so I cant be of much help there.

I dont have pastel corals at all with my SPS, and Ive been running KZ Zeo since day 1 of this tank, and the entire tank is mainly SPS. Hope that helps

Can you post some pictures of your tank? And why don't you try any of there other products?

 

[jsker]

I run the AF products, reef salt, 1+2+3+ bio life fil, zeomix and carbon here and there. I do not run UNLS and the colors pop. I have messed around with some of the zeovit products and they work well also. I would say that both products do about the same, zeovit has a large product line. Price wise Aquaforest is where I am and I have no complaints. I was using all the drops and other products and found going back to simple works better with less hassle.

From reading above posts you are looking for trace elements to dose. Also balancing out Alk, Ca, and Mg make a big difference also.

 

[ksfulk]

Can you post some pictures of your tank? And why don't you try any of there other products?

I don't use any of the other products because I don't need to. There's a no real reason to add things just for the sake of adding them. I cant test for them or dont have the specific problem that they address, so I dont add them.

As for pictures - here are some recent ones, but you can see more in my build thread, linked in my signature.

 

[Anirban]

Lets start from the OP post. You are currently having 1.5ppm of NO3 and want to reduce it a little. Now, you need to understand the fine line of control between 1.5 ppm, 1ppm and 0ppm. I will ask why you want to control the NO3 using zeovit or AF? To me your current NO3 control system working just fine if its holding it to 1.5ppm. Just increase it or tune it a bit to get the NO3 down a bit more. Isn't it more simple than trying a whole batch of new things and tuning them?

Now lets come back to comparison part between KZ and AF. I used KZ and now use AF. Whats the difference? I would say none. But, there are few things which I like more in some AF products and some in KZ.
In AF when you dose something you know precisely what you are adding. But i KZ the components are still in secret. I like the full balling offered by AF as dosing. I tried it and loved it. Then I moved to the salt part and it was cheaper than my TMP salt but almost with same parameter so I started using it. Then I use the Pro bio s and NP pro and it was ok. Then the food part and currently use only pure food from them. I really dont dose ABEV because I am not really running a ULNS tank so dont need them. But I occasionally do use the vitamin. I use their zeolite and carbon with lifesource because I have seen those products to work and making my tank progress forward.

Now coming back to KZ. Great company with nice products but I dont like stuffs when its not written whats in there. I love their Flatworrm stop, coral booster and still use them. But again you dont know whats in there. All smells like vinegar. Prices are quite high too.

But coming back to your question again. Ask yourself if everything is going right why not just modify the current process a bit to fine tune the NO3 and see. ULNS and these methods are good but needs a lot more attention and observation. A little mistake can cost you a lot.

 

[Perry]

I have used both systems and they are similar but not. With Zeovit, it is said to run the basic 4, bacteria, zeostart3, zeolites, and sponge power. My new system which I will eventually begin a thread on is an AIO, so I am limited for space, but wish to achieve ULNS. I have many products remaining from when I was sponsored by AF, and will continue to use until they run out, after which, I will run a hybrid system. I like products from both, but currently am running the following.
1. 2 liters of AF Life Bio Fil in a reactor high flow
2. AF Probiotic Reef Salt
3. AF NP Pro and Pro Bio S daily
4. AF Carbon and Phosphate remover
5. AF Comp 123 system
6. AF A, B, E, and V

I am running on my system with limited live rock, and achieving ULNS results, but when I expire products, my modified plan will by hybridized and is as follows:

1. 2 liters of AF Life Bio Fil in a reactor high flow-------Will continue
2. AF Probiotic Reef Salt---------Switch to Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt
3. AF NP Pro and Pro Bio S daily-------Switch to Zeovit Bacteria and Zeostart 3
4. AF Carbon and Phosphate remover----------Will continue as needed, Carbon for sure, not sure if I need Phosphate remover, Life Bio Fil is doing the job
5. AF Comp 123 system-------Will continue
6. AF A, B, E, and-------Will switch to and start using Pohls Extra, CV, CS, and Sponge Power

Something that I want to mention is that I do not dose full strength on anything, never did on either system, and most importantly you have to wait to observe subtle changes that occur with each product from either company. I have been using these systems for better than 10 years, so I have a grasp, but NEVER run full strength, this to me is where most get themselves on the razors edge, and overly pastel.

 

[Perry]

The first image is my 120 gallon running full AF under more blue lighting. Second pic is my 70 gallon cube running full Zeovit, as a reference

 

[Peng]

Lets start from the OP post. You are currently having 1.5ppm of NO3 and want to reduce it a little. Now, you need to understand the fine line of control between 1.5 ppm, 1ppm and 0ppm. I will ask why you want to control the NO3 using zeovit or AF? To me your current NO3 control system working just fine if its holding it to 1.5ppm. Just increase it or tune it a bit to get the NO3 down a bit more. Isn't it more simple than trying a whole batch of new things and tuning them?

Now lets come back to comparison part between KZ and AF. I used KZ and now use AF. Whats the difference? I would say none. But, there are few things which I like more in some AF products and some in KZ.
In AF when you dose something you know precisely what you are adding. But i KZ the components are still in secret. I like the full balling offered by AF as dosing. I tried it and loved it. Then I moved to the salt part and it was cheaper than my TMP salt but almost with same parameter so I started using it. Then I use the Pro bio s and NP pro and it was ok. Then the food part and currently use only pure food from them. I really dont dose ABEV because I am not really running a ULNS tank so dont need them. But I occasionally do use the vitamin. I use their zeolite and carbon with lifesource because I have seen those products to work and making my tank progress forward.

Now coming back to KZ. Great company with nice products but I dont like stuffs when its not written whats in there. I love their Flatworrm stop, coral booster and still use them. But again you dont know whats in there. All smells like vinegar. Prices are quite high too.

But coming back to your question again. Ask yourself if everything is going right why not just modify the current process a bit to fine tune the NO3 and see. ULNS and these methods are good but needs a lot more attention and observation. A little mistake can cost you a lot.

Thanks for your suggestions. I do understand the very fine line between 1.5 and 0, which I desperately do not want to reach because of potential catastrophes. I just want to decrease my nutrient level to maybe like 0.2 NO3. Currently some of my corals have relatively brown bases. I only have a skimmer at this point. I was thinking maybe using a smaller dosage of Zeolit to decrease NO3 a little further.

 

[Peng]

I have used both systems and they are similar but not. With Zeovit, it is said to run the basic 4, bacteria, zeostart3, zeolites, and sponge power. My new system which I will eventually begin a thread on is an AIO, so I am limited for space, but wish to achieve ULNS. I have many products remaining from when I was sponsored by AF, and will continue to use until they run out, after which, I will run a hybrid system. I like products from both, but currently am running the following.
1. 2 liters of AF Life Bio Fil in a reactor high flow
2. AF Probiotic Reef Salt
3. AF NP Pro and Pro Bio S daily
4. AF Carbon and Phosphate remover
5. AF Comp 123 system
6. AF A, B, E, and V

I am running on my system with limited live rock, and achieving ULNS results, but when I expire products, my modified plan will by hybridized and is as follows:

1. 2 liters of AF Life Bio Fil in a reactor high flow-------Will continue
2. AF Probiotic Reef Salt---------Switch to Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt
3. AF NP Pro and Pro Bio S daily-------Switch to Zeovit Bacteria and Zeostart 3
4. AF Carbon and Phosphate remover----------Will continue as needed, Carbon for sure, not sure if I need Phosphate remover, Life Bio Fil is doing the job
5. AF Comp 123 system-------Will continue
6. AF A, B, E, and-------Will switch to and start using Pohls Extra, CV, CS, and Sponge Power

Something that I want to mention is that I do not dose full strength on anything, never did on either system, and most importantly you have to wait to observe subtle changes that occur with each product from either company. I have been using these systems for better than 10 years, so I have a grasp, but NEVER run full strength, this to me is where most get themselves on the razors edge, and overly pastel.

What level of nitrate and phosphate do you keep in your current tank? Your corals look very pretty and the colors look just like mine. Not very pastel either.

 

[Anirban]

Thanks for your suggestions. I do understand the very fine line between 1.5 and 0, which I desperately do not want to reach because of potential catastrophes. I just want to decrease my nutrient level to maybe like 0.2 NO3. Currently some of my corals have relatively brown bases. I only have a skimmer at this point. I was thinking maybe using a smaller dosage of Zeolit to decrease NO3 a little further.

If you want to decrease 0.2 ppm NO3 precisely then it will be quite a task. Its a biological system which will be in a equilibrium. So, 0.2 actually doesn't control matter that much. Another thing with zeolite is they also absorb some mineral ions from system which they can release back when saturated so its not only NO3 its mineral balance too. If you don't use bacteria or probiotics then its better than zeolite with lesser risk.

 

[Perry]

What level of nitrate and phosphate do you keep in your current tank? Your corals look very pretty and the colors look just like mine. Not very pastel either.[/QUOTE

In that system, assuming you are speaking of the 120 gallon tank, I ran 2.5ppm NO3 consistently, and 0.00 PO4. That was a full AF tank, I never tried to pull NO3 any lower, as I preferred to have more saturation in colors. My Zeovit 70 cube had insane coloration in person, but in the pics looked a bit more white. I suspect if I would have had a bluer setting on this tank, I would have had similar colors. Back in the day, Zeo recommended color temp range at 10k, this is why the corals tend to look more pastel in my opinion. My current tank is a 50 cube, AIO setup. I have a decent skimmer, and have had concerns with controlling nutrients until about 5 days back. I was running around 5-10ppm on NO3 and 0.04 on PO4, with the information from above, only difference in why I am now 0.00NO3 and 0.00PO4 is due to taking the 2 liters of Life Bio Fil and going from passive in a mesh bag to active in a reactor with higher flow. Within 2 days of making this switch, my NO3 bottomed out. So in this setup, I think it will be cool to be able to control nutrients by my flow rate through this reactor. Right now, I am going to increase feeding to fish, and go from frozen LRS 3 times per week, to everyday. The fish love it, and I feel this gives more than pellets do to both fish and corals. If this does not raise the nutrients, I will simply discontinue use of NP Pro and Pro Bio S daily and also decrease the flow rate through my biological media reactor.

 

[Peng]

The AF NP- does sound like a simpler system than zeovit... Maybe I'm wrong. My last experience with biopellets was not fun at all... I might actually try AF 's probiotic products first (Probiotic salt, -NP, and Pro S bac) before going Zeovit. I'm definitely worried about over-stripping the nutrients out of the tank. But on the other hand I want to see some pastel color LOL

 

[Perry]

If you want pastel, try the use of Zeospur by Zeovit, careful, do not exceed recommendations at all. It is quite powerful stuff, but the addition of Copper Sulfate is what is likely the main ingredient, and is in some of the AF lineup as well. If you change your lighting to more white, that will also help, not many people are happy these days seeing this color scheme, but 10k was the standard moons ago, lol... If you use t5, simply pull out a couple of blue bulbs and put in place a couple of ABS or KZ Coral Life bulbs. In fact, I would try this first, then go to Zeospur, again, use with caution.

 

[Anirban]

The AF NP- does sound like a simpler system than zeovit... Maybe I'm wrong. My last experience with biopellets was not fun at all... I might actually try AF 's probiotic products first (Probiotic salt, -NP, and Pro S bac) before going Zeovit. I'm definitely worried about over-stripping the nutrients out of the tank. But on the other hand I want to see some pastel color LOL

Please correct me if I am wrong but do you think that only zeovit sell zeolite??? Because if so then its not true. AF also sell zeolite. A lot of people think that zeovit only sells zeolite but thats not true. Zeolite are microporous aluminosilicate minerals used as adsorbent and catalyst. It has nothing to do with zeovit.

 

[Peng]

Please correct me if I am wrong but do you think that only zeovit sell zeolite??? Because if so then its not true. AF also sell zeolite. A lot of people think that zeovit only sells zeolite but thats not true. Zeolite are microporous aluminosilicate minerals used as adsorbent and catalyst. It has nothing to do with zeovit.

I have actually used zeolites from different brands previously when I ran into ammonia spikes. There are lab grade zeolites I used and even just Brightwell Aquatics brand, at a much cheaper price than Zeolit. However KZ does say that some people who used other brands with different mixtures ran into problems. I don't know about this but it's definitely something people can try with risks associated. I might try using the brand I still have some left.

 

[Anirban]

I have actually used zeolites from different brands previously when I ran into ammonia spikes. There are lab grade zeolites I used and even just Brightwell Aquatics brand, at a much cheaper price than Zeolit. However KZ does say that some people who used other brands with different mixtures ran into problems. I don't know about this but it's definitely something people can try with risks associated. I might try using the brand I still have some left.

Ok, great then let me ask you a question. Did you actually face any issue when you were trying the other commercially available ones? KZ says that its not advisable to use other brand zeolite with their mineral supplementation system as because of the possible difference in adsorption between different brand zeolite they can cause a disbalance in the system.