Zero nitrate and phosphate and no algae in the tank

[Is this the LFS]

I have a 40 breeder with a good quality skimmer and a carbon reactor. I don’t use any nutrient lowering methods besides water changes. I have a pretty decent size bioload as well. For whatever reason tho even though I can’t get a decent nitrate or phosphate reading. There is hardly any algae as well so it’s not like the algae is just consuming it before I can test. The reason I wanna get this figured out is that the low nutrients are causing corals to bleach as well as causing what either is cyano or Dino because of the lack of nutrients. Could nutrients be binded up in the sand bed? Thanks for your help

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm not sure what kits you are using to detect none, but if phosphate truly is low, then there will also be very little bound to calcium carbonate surfaces like sand or rock. Nitrate never binds to calcium carbonate.

Sand might harbor piles of organic detritus, but regardless, I would feed more or dose nutrients .

 

[Crustaceon]

I don’t use any nutrient lowering methods besides water changes

....

a good quality skimmer and a carbon reactor

I think these count too, even if they’re more “nutrient preventative”.

Either way, It sounds to me like you’re doing too much. You probably don’t HAVE to run a skimmer or a carbon reactor. Some might even say you really don’t HAVE to do water changes (many only do it for trace addition). I say, add things to your system as needed and only to address actual problems. You obviously don’t have an excessive nutrient issue, yet you’re running stuff to control nutrients. Just something to consider.

 

[Is this the LFS]

I'm not sure what kits you are using to detect none, but if phosphate truly is low, then there will also be very little bound to calcium carbonate surfaces like sand or rock. Nitrate never binds to calcium carbonate.

Sand might harbor piles of organic detritus, but regardless, I would feed more or dose nutrients .

Thanks Randy you are great. I’m thinking of dosing nitrates and phosphates. Btw I’m using hanna phosphate checker. Just the standard not the ultra low

 

[Is this the LFS]

....


I think these count too, even if they’re more “nutrient preventative”.

Either way, It sounds to me like you’re doing too much. You probably don’t HAVE to run a skimmer or a carbon reactor. Some might even say you really don’t HAVE to do water changes (many only do it for trace addition). I say, add things to your system as needed and only to address actual problems. You obviously don’t have an excessive nutrient issue, yet you’re running stuff to control nutrients. Just something to consider.

I rlly only run carbon to prevent yellowing and to remove any toxins. The skimmer is a aquamax hob 1.5 so it is quite a good skimmer and I will prob turn it off. I will give u my stock list to give u a idea.

2 clownfish
1 mystery wrasse
1 hawkfish
1 jawfish
1 yellow goby
1 coral beautyvangel
1 purple dottyback
2 bangai cardinals

As you can see this is not a light stocking so it’s weird that this minimal nutrient export is driving nutrients that low. Never the less I will turn off the skimmer and start dosing nitrate and phosphate to prevent this Dino or cyano to get outa control. Thanks so much for your help

 

[stanlalee]

All you need to do is feed (or feed more) coral food (powdered stuff: reef chili, reef roids, me coral food, coral frenzy, benereef etc) and dose aminos until you start getting phosphate readings on the hanna meter. cut back the frequency or volume of water changes (don't do ANY while you have dinos). A 2 or 3 day blackout period (hard to do, you want to see your display everyday but do it) will give you a head start knocking off the dinos and microbactor 7 at the same time seems to help.
Adding nitrate and phosphate is ok if the corals are healthy but if yours are bleaching or fading they need food with proteins, amino and fatty acids, carbohydrates not just raw nitrate and phosphate. Not a fan of turning skimmers off either since you already have one (don't think it matters one way or the other).

 

[Crustaceon]

I rlly only run carbon to prevent yellowing and to remove any toxins. The skimmer is a aquamax hob 1.5 so it is quite a good skimmer and I will prob turn it off. I will give u my stock list to give u a idea.

2 clownfish
1 mystery wrasse
1 hawkfish
1 jawfish
1 yellow goby
1 coral beautyvangel
1 purple dottyback
2 bangai cardinals

As you can see this is not a light stocking so it’s weird that this minimal nutrient export is driving nutrients that low. Never the less I will turn off the skimmer and start dosing nitrate and phosphate to prevent this Dino or cyano to get outa control. Thanks so much for your help

How large/frequent of a water change are you doing? I’d say even a 5g weekly change is probably overkill even for that amount of stocking.

 

[Backreefing]

I was in your shoes last summer. 21 small fish , no skimmer , no nutrients, lots of Dino. I dosed sodium nitrate and in a week the dinos were dead . Corals started to recover. Then I started doseing phosphate. Into the rabbit hole I went . For you sodium nitrate. James planted tank calculator will guide you as how much to use .

 

[Is this the LFS]

How large/frequent of a water change are you doing? I’d say even a 5g weekly change is probably overkill even for that amount of stocking.

I do 10 gallons about every 3 weeks.

 

[Is this the LFS]

I was in your shoes last summer. 21 small fish , no skimmer , no nutrients, lots of Dino. I dosed sodium nitrate and in a week the dinos were dead . Corals started to recover. Then I started doseing phosphate. Into the rabbit hole I went . For you sodium nitrate. James planted tank calculator will guide you as how much to use .

So you are saying dosing phosphate for you was not a good idea?

 

[Backreefing]

So you are saying dosing phosphate for you was not a good idea?

Let me think...... for me it was an adventure. I lost a lot of corals. BUT it can be done . If I had a do over, I would have dosed far less and waited. I had some new rock from rescapeing adsorbing phosphate.( very quickly ) .
I had picked a target.050 ppm and dosed more and more to get it but it made things unstable.
example : the ato would top off with phosphate rich water , probably 15-20 times a day . The aquarium then had .050 with in a Short amount of time ( idk minutes) it would be zero again. Then the ato pumps more phosphate rich water in and repeat dozens of times a day . My aquarium was a nutrient roller coaster for two months until it held steady numbers.

 

[Backreefing]

Let me think...... for me it was an adventure. I lost a lot of corals. BUT it can be done . If I had a do over, I would have dosed far less and waited. I had some new rock from rescapeing adsorbing phosphate.( very quickly ) .
I had picked a target.050 ppm and dosed more and more to get it but it made things unstable.
example : the ato would top off with phosphate rich water , probably 15-20 times a day . The aquarium then had .050 with in a Short amount of time ( idk minutes) it would be zero again. Then the ato pumps more phosphate rich water in and repeat dozens of times a day . My aquarium was a nutrient roller coaster for two months until it held steady numbers.

I picked a number.050 but it wasn’t there so I increased the dose again and again. I was doseing far more than that number to get there . In my opinion that’s where I made my mistake. I hope this helps.

 

[Is this the LFS]

I picked a number.050 but it wasn’t there so I increased the dose again and again. I was doseing far more than that number to get there . In my opinion that’s where I made my mistake. I hope this helps.

So I’m confused. If I’m at zero phosphate do you recommend to dose phosphate then or not

 

[Backreefing]

I do think some is needed ( phosphate) but getting nitrates into the aquarium would be better for breaking your dinos problem. That’s where I would start . Get about 10-15 ppm of nitrates to kill the dinos. Then it’s up to you if further doseing is needed. You can use a ATO as I did or a doseing pump. Kill the dinos first , then it might be enough. Good luck

 

[Is this the LFS]

I do think some is needed ( phosphate) but getting nitrates into the aquarium would be better for breaking your dinos problem. That’s where I would start . Get about 10-15 ppm of nitrates to kill the dinos. Then it’s up to you if further doseing is needed. You can use a ATO as I did or a doseing pump. Kill the dinos first , then it might be enough. Good luck

Sounds good. I’m mainly thinking for coral health tho that some phosphates should be added sense they are so low. Because if I’m correct feeding will mainly just add to the nitrates and not do a whole lot for phosphates right?

 

[Backreefing]

Sounds good. I’m mainly thinking for coral health tho that some phosphates should be added sense they are so low. Because if I’m correct feeding will mainly just add to the nitrates and not do a whole lot for phosphates right?

No not exactly the food you put into the aquarium is the major source of phosphate. If you over feed your phosphate will certainly rise .
also nitrates are more forgiving of levels. If you have 1ppm or 5 or 20 ppm your aquarium couldn’t care less . But if you have .005 ppm or .1 ppm does mater . Worst of all is if it rises or falls quickly. I’m a stick head ( sps guy ) so phosphate maters . Lps guys or softie aquariums are much more forgiving.
Get some nitrates in there to kill the dinos and assess what you need at that time . With fish in the aquarium helps , because they are always pooping. Reef roids ( cyano roids ) are full of phosphate. As many foods .

 

[Is this the LFS]

No not exactly the food you put into the aquarium is the major source of phosphate. If you over feed your phosphate will certainly rise .
also nitrates are more forgiving of levels. If you have 1ppm or 5 or 20 ppm your aquarium couldn’t care less . But if you have .005 ppm or .1 ppm does mater . Worst of all is if it rises or falls quickly. I’m a stick head ( sps guy ) so phosphate maters . Lps guys or softie aquariums are much more forgiving.
Get some nitrates in there to kill the dinos and assess what you need at that time . With fish in the aquarium helps , because they are always pooping. Reef roids ( cyano roids ) are full of phosphate. As many foods .

Haha cyano roids. I do have just a tiny bit of cyano now and the Dino for the most part seems to have gone away. Adding about 4 more chromis really seemed to help