Zoanthus sp. vs Palythoa sp. why so much confusion?

[terraincognita]

Well, husbandry is the same, however one is potentially medically significant whereas the other is not.

Possibly.

I just don't think there's enough validated Scientific research showing which ones have more or less etc.

I've read that article and it's a good one for sure, but also all of them technically have it?? I've read other articles about how every coral has a bit of the toxin they've given the nomer of Palytoxin??

Is there any market available test for the toxin? Also no one knows in which amounts and volumes of it are lethal??

Not to turn this into another palytoxin thread, but just about why the misnomer isn't seemingly such a big deal in the hobby.

 

[C. Eymann]

Possibly.

I just don't think there's enough validated Scientific research showing which ones have more or less etc.

I've read that article and it's a good one for sure, but also all of them technically have it?? I've read other articles about how every coral has a bit of the toxin they've given the nomer of Palytoxin??

Is there any market available test for the toxin? Also no one knows in which amounts and volumes of it are lethal??

Not to turn this into another palytoxin thread, but just about why the misnomer isn't seemingly such a big deal in the hobby.

You said you read the article I posted?


An excerpt from the article-
"I have heard many knowledgeable aquarists incorrectly state that all “zoanthids” contain it and are therefore dangerous, which is not accurate whatsoever. Such blanket statements show a lack of expertise in these corals and the extensive research recently published on them. One such study (Deeds et al 2011) focused on aquarium specimens and found that there is likely a single lineage of button polyps which is truly dangerous to the general aquarium community."




Ill agree there isn't enough scientific research done yet at this point.
However, the statement "all zoanthus sp have palytoxin" is false, even some collected specimens of Palythoa sp have been shown to be completely devoid of palytoxin, there was a study -specimens of several species of both Palythoa and zoanthus were collected and these tissue samples were analyzed for the presence of deoxy-palytoxin (PLTX) specimens of P. toxica and P. heliodiscus showed substantial amounts of the compound, whereas like I mentioned P. mutuki samples and several other zoanthus species showed none present.

They did find a compound in a sample of Z. sociatus that looked similar in structure to PLTX, however it was in such trace amounts that they were unable to confirm it was indeed palytoxin.

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www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I will say that I whole heartlly recommend that precautions should be taken with every coral, zoa/paly aside, treat every coral you work with like it possibly could be harmful if ingested, because some that haven't been fully studied very well could contain potentially harmful compounds.

Better safe than sorry

 

[terraincognita]

You said you read the article I posted?


An excerpt from the article-
"I have heard many knowledgeable aquarists incorrectly state that all “zoanthids” contain it and are therefore dangerous, which is not accurate whatsoever. Such blanket statements show a lack of expertise in these corals and the extensive research recently published on them. One such study (Deeds et al 2011) focused on aquarium specimens and found that there is likely a single lineage of button polyps which is truly dangerous to the general aquarium community."




Ill agree there isn't enough scientific research done yet at this point.
However, the statement "all zoanthus sp have palytoxin" is false, even some collected specimens of Palythoa sp have been shown to be completely devoid of palytoxin, there was a study -specimens of several species of both Palythoa and zoanthus were collected and these tissue samples were analyzed for the presence of deoxy-palytoxin (PLTX) specimens of P. toxica and P. heliodiscus showed substantial amounts of the compound, whereas like I mentioned P. mutuki samples showed none present.

They did find a compound in a sample of Z. sociatus that looked similar in structure to PLTX, however it was in such trace amounts that they were unable to confirm it was indeed palytoxin.

Checking your browser - reCAPTCHA

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I will say that I whole heartlly recommend that precautions should be taken with every coral, zoa/paly aside, treat every coral you wont with like it possibly could be harmful if ingested, because some that haven't been fully studied very well could contain potentially harmful compounds.

Better safe than sorry

I did read the article yes, but I didn't write off everything from other articles based on one, hence why my statements also had ?? after them.

Interesting to know, and better info for sure.

I only stumbled across this article as I was looking up safety precautions for fragging Captain Jerks. Read somewhere else those were the "worst ones", but again the above articles argue specifically what you're saying.

Either way, I had the same colony of jerks squished on the bottom side of a rock at the bottom of a bucket with rock and saltwater. I was mid moving between my recent tank transfer (un intentional) and were there for 8 hours before I noticed, needless to say they were very angry and I'm sure would've released said PT, and I was at that time handling it without gloves (as I wasn't aware they were on the rock haha) and I had several cuts on my hand (from aquascaping) and nothing happened....

Others also suggest similar to bee venom, some people possibly react more allergically than others.

Anyway ultimately my point was, if Palytoxins were more of a serious threat and only found in Palythoa's (you're saying they are in 1 specific species which is great and probably true), and or they had a different care regimen from Zoanthids, potentially the nomer differentiation would stick.

Since it seems most reefers while in the back of their mind always worry about suddenly being intoxicated from PT, most of us just write it off haha and the care is the same, why the nomer differentiation is not that important.

 

[C. Eymann]

I did read the article yes, but I didn't write off everything from other articles based on one, hence why my statements also had ?? after them.

Interesting to know, and better info for sure.

I only stumbled across this article as I was looking up safety precautions for fragging Captain Jerks. Read somewhere else those were the "worst ones", but again the above articles argue specifically what you're saying.

Either way, I had the same colony of jerks squished on the bottom side of a rock I was mid moving between my recent tank transfer (un intentional) and were there for 8 hours before I noticed, needless to say they were very angry and I'm sure would've released said PT, and I was at that time handling it without gloves (as I wasn't aware they were on the rock haha) and I had several cuts on my hand (from aquascaping) and nothing happened....

Others also suggest similar to bee venom, some people possibly react more allergically than others.

Captain jerks are not P. mutuki, captain jerks are believed to be either P. toxica or heliodiscus and most definitely should be respected because of their potential high concentration of palytoxin

 

[terraincognita]

Captain jerks are not P. mutuki, captain jerks are believed to be either P. toxica or heliodiscus and most definitely should be respected because of their potential high concentration of palytoxin

Well, there we go....

too late.... but otherwise haha yeah I will still take care when fragging any Palythoa. You never know.

Although a sting from my Favia has hurt me worse than anytime I've ever handled Zoa's or Paly's

 

[C. Eymann]

Well, there we go....

too late.... but otherwise haha yeah I will still take care when fragging any Palythoa. You never know.

Although a sting from my Favia has hurt me worse than anytime I've ever handled Zoa's or Paly's

Euphyllia get me the worst out of all them, esp if they get you on a cut, I swear a torch sting on an open cut hurts more than any bee sting I have ever experienced.

 

[terraincognita]

Euphyllia get me the worst out of all them, esp if they get you on a cut, I swear a torch sting on an open cut hurts more than any bee sting I have ever experienced.

Hammer sting had my entire right side of my wrist to the middle of my pinky throbbing for a couple hours once

Haha at least once a coral hurts me I always give it a sideways glance of respect in the future.

Just hope my lackadaisical regard with my zoa's never bites me