Zoas Close and Then Die

[Adamantium]

I doubt there’s a clear answer for this, but does anyone know why I have frags of zoas that will just randomly close up and decide to melt away? They’re fine one day, and dead the next. It’s happened 2 or 3 times out of like 20 frags. Everything else in the tank, zoas included, is growing like gang busters.

Is this happening to anyone else? Any ideas?

 

[Juka087]

That is just what zoas do. Nobody knows why. It is the way of the zoa. Riddle me this. Why is it that most people cant grow hallucination zoanthids. Even in pristine tanks being run by a experienced person. Hell even in mature tanks, but yet im growing them in a 5 month old frag tank? Zoas man... zoas.

 

[Adamantium]

Hahaha this is exactly the answer I figured I’d get. So weird. It’s usually the ones I like the most, too.

It was growing a few new heads, too.

 

[Juka087]

Hahaha this is exactly the answer I figured I’d get. So weird. It’s usually the ones I like the most, too.

It was growing a few new heads, too.

Try again.

 

[vetteguy53081]

infrequent feeding and ultra low nutrient conditions can lead to entire colony meltdowns. The "cheesing out" syndrome can be the result of limited nutrients (Phosphates, Nitrates). Zoanthids need fish poop, dissolved food matter and the resulting nutrients to thrive.
generally, zoanthids can thrive in the same conditions that SPS corals do. Good dissolved organics levels, high light, good nutrient export, low nutrient byproducts like Nitrates and Phosphates. I am not claiming that Zoanthids need the pristine conditions that SPS corals require but they do thrive in similar conditions. However, I have learned from experience that Phosphate levels below .02 can be detrimental to the health of the polyps. Always remember that Nitrogen and Phosphorus are the building blocks for coral life, so zero Nitrate reading or zero Phosphate reading are not a good thing for your aquarium life.
Zoanthids do not require the level of, or the amount of trace elements that SPS corals do but they certainly benefit from consistent water quality/chemistry. Qualities that should be monitored regularly in a reef aquarium are -- Alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium, Iodine, temperature, Phosphates, Nitrates, and pH. I am not indicating that they require all of the aforementioned items specifically, only that consistent levels keep Zoanthids happy and healthy. My chemistry is consistently maintained in this range:

dKH: 8.0 - 9.0
Calcium: 430 - 440
Magnesium: 1250 - 1300
Iodine: Maintained via regular water changes (be careful if you are dosing without testing!)
Temperature: 77 - 79 degrees
pH: 8.1-8.2
Phosphates: .02 - .03
Nitrates < 5

Adding iodide weekly also benefits them

 

[Juka087]

infrequent feeding and ultra low nutrient conditions can lead to entire colony meltdowns. The "cheesing out" syndrome can be the result of limited nutrients (Phosphates, Nitrates). Zoanthids need fish poop, dissolved food matter and the resulting nutrients to thrive.
generally, zoanthids can thrive in the same conditions that SPS corals do. Good dissolved organics levels, high light, good nutrient export, low nutrient byproducts like Nitrates and Phosphates. I am not claiming that Zoanthids need the pristine conditions that SPS corals require but they do thrive in similar conditions. However, I have learned from experience that Phosphate levels below .02 can be detrimental to the health of the polyps. Always remember that Nitrogen and Phosphorus are the building blocks for coral life, so zero Nitrate reading or zero Phosphate reading are not a good thing for your aquarium life.
Zoanthids do not require the level of, or the amount of trace elements that SPS corals do but they certainly benefit from consistent water quality/chemistry. Qualities that should be monitored regularly in a reef aquarium are -- Alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium, Iodine, temperature, Phosphates, Nitrates, and pH. I am not indicating that they require all of the aforementioned items specifically, only that consistent levels keep Zoanthids happy and healthy. My chemistry is consistently maintained in this range:

dKH: 8.0 - 9.0
Calcium: 430 - 440
Magnesium: 1250 - 1300
Iodine: Maintained via regular water changes (be careful if you are dosing without testing!)
Temperature: 77 - 79 degrees
pH: 8.1-8.2
Phosphates: .02 - .03
Nitrates < 5

Adding iodide weekly also benefits them

Even with all this.... they will still randomly melt.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Even with all this.... they will still randomly melt.

What test kits are you using ?
With false readings- you will get this surprise. I assume youre using RODI water ?

 

[Juka087]

What test kits are you using ?
With false readings- you will get this surprise. I assume youre using RODI water ?

......bro zoas just melt. Even in perfect conditions. Thats just how it is. Even joshporksandwich has lamented about not being able to keep hallucinations even though he has like 200 varieties of zoas. They just simply melt. Same thing with stratosphere's.

And yes I use hannah, and salifert. With a brs 6 stage rodi. I have a tank specifically just for growing only zoas. Sometimes. They just melt.

 

[PicassoClown04]

Truth. Some zoas just melt. I’ve got 60+ varieties of zoa and I still have some that melt, not just high ends either- I’ve had Gobstoppers melt right next to seductions that were doing perfect. OP, you seem to have an issue though.

Multiple frags melting at the same time with the same symptoms is definitely a cause for concern. Have you checked for spiders, asterinas, zoa eating pods, nudis, etc? Are you dosing iodine (either directly or through a trace element solution)?

 

[Adamantium]

Truth. Some zoas just melt. I’ve got 60+ varieties of zoa and I still have some that melt, not just high ends either- I’ve had Gobstoppers melt right next to seductions that were doing perfect. OP, you seem to have an issue though.

Multiple frags melting at the same time with the same symptoms is definitely a cause for concern. Have you checked for spiders, asterinas, zoa eating pods, nudis, etc? Are you dosing iodine (either directly or through a trace element solution)?

Not all at the same time. It’s currently happening with one frag (Guanos), and previously with two other frags. I’m inclined to think **** just happens. There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason for it. They’re right next to other, perfectly healthy, zoas, so I don’t think it’s pests.

 

[Adamantium]

infrequent feeding and ultra low nutrient conditions can lead to entire colony meltdowns. The "cheesing out" syndrome can be the result of limited nutrients (Phosphates, Nitrates). Zoanthids need fish poop, dissolved food matter and the resulting nutrients to thrive.
generally, zoanthids can thrive in the same conditions that SPS corals do. Good dissolved organics levels, high light, good nutrient export, low nutrient byproducts like Nitrates and Phosphates. I am not claiming that Zoanthids need the pristine conditions that SPS corals require but they do thrive in similar conditions. However, I have learned from experience that Phosphate levels below .02 can be detrimental to the health of the polyps. Always remember that Nitrogen and Phosphorus are the building blocks for coral life, so zero Nitrate reading or zero Phosphate reading are not a good thing for your aquarium life.
Zoanthids do not require the level of, or the amount of trace elements that SPS corals do but they certainly benefit from consistent water quality/chemistry. Qualities that should be monitored regularly in a reef aquarium are -- Alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium, Iodine, temperature, Phosphates, Nitrates, and pH. I am not indicating that they require all of the aforementioned items specifically, only that consistent levels keep Zoanthids happy and healthy. My chemistry is consistently maintained in this range:

dKH: 8.0 - 9.0
Calcium: 430 - 440
Magnesium: 1250 - 1300
Iodine: Maintained via regular water changes (be careful if you are dosing without testing!)
Temperature: 77 - 79 degrees
pH: 8.1-8.2
Phosphates: .02 - .03
Nitrates < 5

Adding iodide weekly also benefits them

Funny enough, all of my parameters are almost exactly the same, save for Alk which seems to always be a bit on the low side (7ish). I even dose a very small amount of iodine weekly. Just had an ICP test that showed a value of .03PPM. Not high, but not especially low.

I’m inclined to believe things just happen. It’s unfortunate, but I can’t find any other rhyme or reason for it. It’s reassuring to hear that it’s not just me, I guess haha

 

[blasterman]

The problem mainly occurs with newer species that have been introduced. Hornets had the same problem for years. Now they are regarded as relatively hardy.

I'm pretty certain its either fungal or bacterial. Recently introduced zoas arent acclimated to captive tanks as well as older varieties.

 

[Kellie in CA]

I'm pretty much over zoas. My gold mauls took off like crazy and then one day they all started to melt. Now my beauty and the beast palys are starting to go. Of course my ugly cheap varieties couldn't be happier. I really think I'm done buying them.

 

[danschoenherr]

I have to agree with the earlier posts that some are just going to melt on you. It may be right away, or worse, a year later after they are a nice sized colony. I've tried over two hundred varieties now, and there are maybe 5 or 6 that just don't like my system. It could be the established strains of bacteria or a fungus, who knows. After noticing a frag start to go downhill, I would even try fragging that into 3 separate frags, dipping in everything from Lugols, to Furan to Erythromyecin and place the frags in different lighting and flows to no avail. I still won't stop though as I really enjoy growing the endless varieties of colors and patterns.

 

[RyanS]

As varieties of zoas are propagated and evolve more to the varying aquarium environments, do they melt less? Basically... Do they become more hardy in subsequent generations ?

 

[iMi]

I am trying to figure why out of the 20 or so frags I've got several are not doing well. Water parameters are fine and I do two 25-30% water changes a week. I have a couple SPS frags in there that are growing. Yet, some of the zoas are just not doing well. I posted in response to someone having a similar problem that I may be starving them of nutrient. Last measurement, Nitrates were very low and Phosphates were 0.8, so slightly high. Maybe it's this imbalance. I'll be testing again later today to see if anything changed.

 

[Saltyreef]

The ones that seem to melt for me end up being some bacterial infection.
And doesnt matter how expensive.
The only ones that wont die are my rastas lol.

High nitrates from an overdose and a huge biofiltration reduction after from it knocked out 90% of my coral. Mainly zoas.
1 year later my biofilter is showing signs of re establishment.

 

[iMi]

The ones that seem to melt for me end up being some bacterial infection.
And doesnt matter how expensive.
The only ones that wont die are my rastas lol.

High nitrates from an overdose and a huge biofiltration reduction after from it knocked out 90% of my coral. Mainly zoas.
1 year later my biofilter is showing signs of re establishment.

I suspect pests, too. In fact, I am now pretty sure all aside from one came from the same supplier. I dipped them all, but that's no guarantee. I did find a zoa spider and removed it. Only one, but who knows how many more are there.

Thank you for your feedback. Should I take the strugglers out and re-dip them again? Or would that stress them even more?

 

[Alvaro_Spain]

Zoas are animals and animals sometimes have infections. It´s normal.

We only test for some elements in the water, but there´s a whole world there in terms of microorganisms. Which we don´t test. So maybe the explanation is in that bacteria and microorganisms level too.

On the other hand sometimes zoas have fungal attacks too.

 

[Biddence]

infrequent feeding and ultra low nutrient conditions can lead to entire colony meltdowns. The "cheesing out" syndrome can be the result of limited nutrients (Phosphates, Nitrates). Zoanthids need fish poop, dissolved food matter and the resulting nutrients to thrive.
generally, zoanthids can thrive in the same conditions that SPS corals do. Good dissolved organics levels, high light, good nutrient export, low nutrient byproducts like Nitrates and Phosphates. I am not claiming that Zoanthids need the pristine conditions that SPS corals require but they do thrive in similar conditions. However, I have learned from experience that Phosphate levels below .02 can be detrimental to the health of the polyps. Always remember that Nitrogen and Phosphorus are the building blocks for coral life, so zero Nitrate reading or zero Phosphate reading are not a good thing for your aquarium life.
Zoanthids do not require the level of, or the amount of trace elements that SPS corals do but they certainly benefit from consistent water quality/chemistry. Qualities that should be monitored regularly in a reef aquarium are -- Alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium, Iodine, temperature, Phosphates, Nitrates, and pH. I am not indicating that they require all of the aforementioned items specifically, only that consistent levels keep Zoanthids happy and healthy. My chemistry is consistently maintained in this range:

dKH: 8.0 - 9.0
Calcium: 430 - 440
Magnesium: 1250 - 1300
Iodine: Maintained via regular water changes (be careful if you are dosing without testing!)
Temperature: 77 - 79 degrees
pH: 8.1-8.2
Phosphates: .02 - .03
Nitrates < 5

Adding iodide weekly also benefits them

I 100% agree with this i have owned dozens of different type of zoas, and the only time i lost any is when i let phosphates and nitrates get depleted and failed to test right away.