Zoas mysteriously withering

[mfollen]

Thanks on the vitamin c tips!

For now I’m going to focus on restabalizing and will research vit C in the future... unless in my case it dam help reverse damage done. I just don’t like dosing anything I can’t measure.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Discontinued furan, I only dipped once with no improvement.

After correct calibration I realized the refractometer was slightly off. Salinity was 1.027 which is enough to close zoas..

after discussing further, a couple other reefers felt that the stressed zoas were overtaken or impacted by a bad bacteria introduced to the system but fueled by carbon dosing.

course of action is to slowly lower salinity to 1.026 into tomorrow. I also changed the dip regimen. 5 minute dip in revive followed by - 15 minute lugols iodine dip as a broad antibacterial treatment vs furan 2.

will report progress. I am curious to see if many reefers have had negative impact on zoas following carbon dosing. They seem to do well eating the bacteria, fluffing up healthy, but can also be negatively impacted easily by other certain bacteria strains.

Salinity being off could be an issue, that’s why I suggested focusing on why your parameters on the ICP test were much lower than what most salt mixes mix to.

I would get an independent salinity test done. What you home tests show and what your ICP results showed are just to far off.

My tank runs a salinity of about 36 ppt, which is about 1.027 sg. No problems with Zoa’s in my tank.

 

[mfollen]

Will do today. Thanks so much. It must be off

 

[Mark Dunlap]

When did you last add a new zoa or paly? I've wondered about viral infection in cases like this. No real way to test for or treat as far as Ii know.

 

[mfollen]

Interesting, I didn’t think of that. Mmm last zoas were maybe two weeks or so before things started happening. Came from another r2r members tank, pretty sure a clean system

 

[Mark Dunlap]

I'm a veterinarian-- but way far from an authority on coral disease. In analyzing a production system with problems we look for patterns:
1) Facility problems. It sounds as if you and your tank have very successfully raised zoas and palys in the past. Your water parameters are a little off but not nearly bad enough to explain the issue. I'd rule out facility problems.
2) Parasite problems. You seem very certain you've ruled out known parasites. I would not completely rule them out but it seems unlikely.
3) Nutrition problems. It doesn't seem like lights or feeding have changed so it seems unlikely.
4) Bacterial infection. The furan 2 dips have not ruled it out but would seem to make it less likely.
5) Toxins. You're running carbon and don't report other changes. Unlikely but consider any possible contaminants to your system.
6) Viral. As far as I know there is nothing known about possible viral infections in these species. However viral infections have been found in virtually all species adequately tested. If I was confident I had ruled out other explanations I would move it to the top of the suspect list.

The only advice i could offer for a possible viral etiology would be to try vitamin C (questionable benefit at best). If you had unlimited facilities separating your most valuable unaffected specimens to individual quarantine systems would be ideal.

Good luck, Mark

 

[mfollen]

Wow thanks Mark, very insightful and summary.

Most of the affected zoas have not worsened today whilesome have started to look better. Good signs today

I lowered the salinity yesterday from 1.027 to 1.026. Also the affected zoas received the revive and then lugols dip.

Today the salinity was verified by another source at 1.025-1.026. Next step is to buffer parameters and lower nutrients a little more with a 20% water change.

hopefully this helps stabilizes the improved condition today.

thank you everyone.

 

[Mark Dunlap]

Sounds encouraging. I'm not familiar with Coral Revive-- what is in it? Assuming the dip with Lugol's was beneficial (remembering association does not confirm causation) that would suggest a bacterial problem.

 

[mfollen]

Ahhh sorry, I meant coralrx, not revive. “Natural extracts” are in coralrx, not iodine based.

The coralrx then lugols dips seem to of helped the affected zoas not worsen, but they seem the same maybe stabilized. But the issue is in place.

I did a 20% water change yesterday and hopefully that helps reset things. I also stopped carbon dosing and phytoplankton dosing.

I will reintroduce the phyto and carbon dosing one at a time. But for now I want to let things sit and see what happens.

po4 is still 0.25 and no3 is 25

 

[mfollen]

Pictures of some of affected palys:
First they close up like this...

Then they worsen, wither/decay slightly with brown film sometimes forming:

then worsen:

 

[Mark Dunlap]

From the pictures it looks as if the orange zoas are unaffected. Is the problem only affecting palys? Any pattern to which are affected?

 

[mfollen]

On average, more zoas are affected in lower flow vs higher flow. But some in higher flow have been affected as well. And yes all other coral are thriving.

 

[Stoney]

I wouldnt give up on the furan after a single dip. IME it takes a few dips before seeing results. It also seems easier on the polyps compared to iodine and coralrx, which close them up almost instantly. Ive done daily 25 min dips for up to a week without any signs of stress and the polyps are wide open until I blow on them with a turkey baster. I dont increase the temperature though as that seems to cause more stress than the furan. All I know is furan has saved countless polyps of mine. Even if it turns out ineffective, at least it wont further stress out the polyps like other dips will. This is how much I believe in it lol

 

[mfollen]

Awesome thanks @Stoney . Interesting to hear its not as hard as iodine dips.

I'll let them be for the next couple days and will start experimenting with light doses of Vitamin C. If they look any worse I'll dip again.

 

[Uncle99]

Yup, phosphate bit on the higher side at .3 (mine are 0.5-.15)
Nitrate a bit high for my taste, but not out of scope.

 

[littlebigreef]

Awesome thanks @Stoney . Interesting to hear its not as hard as iodine dips.

I'll let them be for the next couple days and will start experimenting with light doses of Vitamin C. If they look any worse I'll dip again.

I may not have mentioned that but Stony is spot on. Generally a single Furan dip won’t yield results... it takes a few days and as I mentioned before I’ll go multiple days on before a day off.

I’d stay away from vitamin c dosing until everything is sorted out- but just my opinion.

 

[mfollen]

Ok thanks so much. I’ll revisit dips if they don’t begin recoverying.

 

[ReeferBean]

I dose about a table spoon once a day for 340 gal with a target of 5ppm which is the low end. A friend of my that has great success with zoas doses twice daily for a target of 10ppm.

I’d posted and received the equation in the zoa forum previously if you want to go hunting.

IMO it works... however, on larger volumes you have to dose more which can lower nitrates/phosphates.

Thanks. We have similar sized systems. How do you test for the Vit C concentration? Test kit?

 

[littlebigreef]

Thanks. We have similar sized systems. How do you test for the Vit C concentration? Test kit?

There’s no way of testing to my knowledge.

 

[mfollen]

Another update: nothing’s improved. It’s only slowed down if that.
Yesterday:

Today:

Man this sucks. Regardless of the dipping, there is a virus or bacteria running in the system that dipping will do nothing for. Still no concrete solution on what I can do for the system....

i have dr Tim’s eco balance coming in the mail today. Im going to dose this in hopes of resetting bacterial diversity in the system for potential bacterial issue. I’m also going to start dosing vitamin C tomorrow to improve immune support for potential viral issue.