0 phosphates?

[AJsReef]

I said only a concern, I did not say it can't happen and it would be very hard to prove since it doesn't happen in most setups. Also it is not the ulr. Regardless this is a new tank experiencing new tank issues and when I see someone with a new setup saying that they are fighting dinos, not doing water changes, changing filter socks once a week, ect I can't help but think they have been drinking too much of the online coolaid. Success in this hobby is bred from patience. It is as simple as that.

The point you’re missing is that it does happen in most set ups. Calcium carbonate has a “carrying load” of phosphate, until that is reached it will use phosphate more rapidly that anything else in the tank. You could wait and ride out through natural uptake of phosphate through feeding but if the tank is experiencing Dinos then IME, dosing for the phosphate is a much quicker resolution. Everything you stated as “online coolaid” has been successfully leveraged by people fighting Dinos. Higher nutrients cause out competition of Dinos, period. Be it N/P and/or Silicates depending on species. If a tank continues a 0/0 there’s nothing for other species to outcompete. Dinos thrive in a starved environment.

Unless a tank is overran my GHA or Bryopsis, there is absolutely nothing wrong with dosing N/P to standard “low” levels vs zero.

I think what most people get caught up with when arguing 0s and ULNS is years ago we had color chart test kits where 0 in almost all cases was not 0. With access to new test kits and ICPs its pretty clear when you’re at true exhaustion of N/P. At which point you can feed extremely heavy or dose, but without one of those two the tank will experience negative symptoms. From a practical perspective it’s much easier to dose a known amount of N/P vs sporadic heavy feedings.

 

[Jeffcb]

So I guess I need to get a Microscope to figure out what kind of Dinos the tanks has.

 

[AJsReef]

So I guess I need to get a Microscope to figure out what kind of Dinos the tanks has.

Definitely a good idea, you don’t need a fancy one either

 

[Suohhen]

The point you’re missing is that it does happen in most set ups. Calcium carbonate has a “carrying load” of phosphate, until that is reached it will use phosphate more rapidly that anything else in the tank. You could wait and ride out through natural uptake of phosphate through feeding but if the tank is experiencing Dinos then IME, dosing for the phosphate is a much quicker resolution. Everything you stated as “online coolaid” has been successfully leveraged by people fighting Dinos. Higher nutrients cause out competition of Dinos, period. Be it N/P and/or Silicates depending on species. If a tank continues a 0/0 there’s nothing for other species to outcompete. Dinos thrive in a starved environment.

Unless a tank is overran my GHA or Bryopsis, there is absolutely nothing wrong with dosing N/P to standard “low” levels vs zero.

I think what most people get caught up with when arguing 0s and ULNS is years ago we had color chart test kits where 0 in almost all cases was not 0. With access to new test kits and ICPs its pretty clear when you’re at true exhaustion of N/P. At which point you can feed extremely heavy or dose, but without one of those two the tank will experience negative symptoms. From a practical perspective it’s much easier to dose a known amount of N/P vs sporadic heavy feedings.

I don't know why you are making this an argument about dinos or even an argument at all. Everything I said is in reference to the fact that you have to read through the lines on these posts and given what the op said I can only assume that they have been actively fighting algae through many other unstated means and this is where we are at.
Again this is not a ULR phos checker so we don't know that they are dealing with 0 phos, and the Dino is not on the rocks, it is on the sand. The op stated that the 'new rocks are green'.

 

[AJsReef]

I don't know why you are making this an argument about dinos or even an argument at all. Everything I said is in reference to the fact that you have to read through the lines on these posts and given what the op said I can only assume that they have been actively fighting algae through many other unstated means and this is where we are at.
Again this is not a ULR phos checker so we don't know that they are dealing with 0 phos, and the Dino is not on the rocks, it is on the sand. The op stated that the 'new rocks are green'.

Regardless this is a new tank experiencing new tank issues and when I see someone with a new setup saying that they are fighting dinos,

You started to mention Dinos, I quoted and directly responded to what you stated..... I don't read between lines unnecessarily, this is a forum. If more information is needed, ask the question.

 

[Suohhen]

You started to mention Dinos, I quoted and directly responded to what you stated..... I don't read between lines unnecessarily, this is a forum. If more information is needed, ask the question.

Surely a common happenstance in these algae threads and probably why most people on this site avoid these threads like the plague.

 

[Uncle99]

I as well was surprised by a zero phosphate reading from my Hanna just a few days ago, the tank has been running a year and phosphate was running always at 0.03-0.05ppm.

Tested three times, always zero.

Added some Brightwell Neophos and hours later, back at 0.05ppm.
Added more next day and tested at 0.08ppm.

In my case, the zero reading from the Hanna is absolute correct.

Hanna has a flux in the reading by 0.04ppm

 

[AJsReef]

I as well was surprised by a zero phosphate reading from my Hanna just a few days ago, the tank has been running a year and phosphate was running always at 0.03-0.05ppm.

Tested three times, always zero.

Added some Brightwell Neophos and hours later, back at 0.05ppm.
Added more next day and tested at 0.08ppm.

In my case, the zero reading from the Hanna is absolute correct.

Hanna has a flux in the reading by 0.04ppm

Which Hanna tester? Phosphorous ULR is a little tighter for maintaining low levels 5ppb (.015ppm). Definitely helpful when targeting sub .1 values

 

[Uncle99]

Which Hanna tester? Phosphorous ULR is a little tighter for maintaining low levels 5ppb (.015ppm). Definitely helpful when targeting sub .1 values

The Hanna UL Phosphorus I agree seems to better at these low levels.

 

[AJsReef]

The Hanna UL Phosphorus I agree seems to better at these low levels.

Agreed, although per specs you shouldn’t be seeing that much flux between tests :/ You may very well already do this but I found storing the vials with RO water in them between tests increased the precision

 

[boboyo]

So I guess I need to get a Microscope to figure out what kind of Dinos the tanks has.

I bought a microscope for the old tank’s dino outbreak. It’s ostepris again. Last time it was because nutrients hit 0 after a massive wave of WC to QT all the fish.

this time it’s different, nitrate is at 20ppm.

the first wave of dinos on the new tank was countered by lights off for 3 days (and UV) then starting up the lights with the “acclimation period” of 4 weeks, starting at 10% intensity. I’m now around 40% Mac intensity. The dinos have been spreading fast since this post was made. (I’m using 3 radion g2 xr30 on this 125g tank).

the sand was originally a little green and was totally replaced by brown dinos.

the dinos are also starting to form strings on the rocks now.
I’ve read that chaeto might help? I have some handy and the fuge light is already installed and ready if anyone would recommend it.

Edit : I got rid of dinos in the old tank by feeding a lot, that’s why I purposefully tried to build up nutrients in the new one after the initial very early outbreak of dinos since it’s the same kind.

 

[AJsReef]

Is the UV ineffective with these Dinos? Potentially Amphibidum Dinos, annoying but not nearly as bad as Osteropsis as far as toxicity.

Things that have been reported to knock them down or irradiate; raising temp to 82+ degrees, dosing silicates to 1-2ppm to force diatom bloom to out compete, bacteria out competition through things like elegent corals program.

I pretty much tried each different theory, combined with N/P dosing and beat them back after a few weeks. Supposedly, dosing Phyto can help out compete as well. Best of luck!

 

[boboyo]

Is the UV ineffective with these Dinos? Potentially Amphibidum Dinos, annoying but not nearly as bad as Osteropsis as far as toxicity.

Things that have been reported to knock them down or irradiate; raising temp to 82+ degrees, dosing silicates to 1-2ppm to force diatom bloom to out compete, bacteria out competition through things like elegent corals program.

I pretty much tried each different theory, combined with N/P dosing and beat them back after a few weeks. Supposedly, dosing Phyto can help out compete as well. Best of luck!

I mean there’s less flow on the sand so maybe they’re not flying over in the overflow to get UVed? When dosing phyto, do you mean the live phyto or the phyto products? Cuz I have some “dead phyto” handy.

if I go that route, I’d have to put the UV on hold right?

 

[AJsReef]

I mean there’s less flow on the sand so maybe they’re not flying over in the overflow to get UVed? When dosing phyto, do you mean the live phyto or the phyto products? Cuz I have some “dead phyto” handy.

if I go that route, I’d have to put the UV on hold right?

Do you still have the microscope? Getting an ID of them would be best to determine

I left my UV for all stages of treatment, except bacterial dosing aggressively for a week. I believe the phyto would have to be alive to outcompete. I used Algae Barns blend.

 

[boboyo]

Do you still have the microscope? Getting an ID of them would be best to determine

I left my UV for all stages of treatment, except bacterial dosing aggressively for a week. I believe the phyto would have to be alive to outcompete. I used Algae Barns blend.

Yea I guess I should post this in the dino section with fresh pics.
The dinos are still in an early phase and I have some mb7 handy. Do you think it’s a good idea to dose it or am I just wasting it?

 

[attiland]

Yea I guess I should post this in the dino section with fresh pics.
The dinos are still in an early phase and I have some mb7 handy. Do you think it’s a good idea to dose it or am I just wasting it?

ID first than treat. I would strongly discourage you to just start to do experimental treatments. Each strains have its treatment.
dino tread is a good idea for positive ID.