16” Shadow Overflow - Noise when pushing Flow

[Ryan420r6]

I second the turbulence coming in from your display as the main culprit. I run the ghost and the only sound I hear is the water rushing down my drains. It does look like you still have a little room to come up on your water level though which should help reduce the noise. If I were you I would play with powerhead placement to see if you can find a sweet spot that gives you some water break without throwing a tidal wave directly at the weir. Also, you shouldn’t be getting salt creep if the lid is snapped shut. It’s a very tight fit and can be a little tricky especially if your tank is rimmed. Good luck!

 

[behold81]

I second the turbulence coming in from your display as the main culprit. I run the ghost and the only sound I hear is the water rushing down my drains. It does look like you still have a little room to come up on your water level though which should help reduce the noise. If I were you I would play with powerhead placement to see if you can find a sweet spot that gives you some water break without throwing a tidal wave directly at the weir. Also, you shouldn’t be getting salt creep if the lid is snapped shut. It’s a very tight fit and can be a little tricky especially if your tank is rimmed. Good luck!

I can power off my WAV's to see if its quieter and point the returns off the top, willing to try.

As to moving the water level up. it would mean my secondary is touching the lid almost so would not do alot I would need to remove the u bend. thoughts on that?

The creep is all internal. taking the lid off its all salty around the inside not outside.

 

[Ryan420r6]

I can power off my WAV's to see if its quieter and point the returns off the top, willing to try.

As to moving the water level up. it would mean my secondary is touching the lid almost so would not do alot I would need to remove the u bend. thoughts on that?

The creep is all internal. taking the lid off its all salty around the inside not outside.[/QUOTE

To get the water level to rise restrict the flow using your gate valve...you shouldn’t have to move the u-pipes. It looks like you have them staggered correctly.

 

[rushbattle]

Mine had salt creep everywhere, even creeping down the plumbing. Had to seal up the lid with a small gasket. Like I said, terrible engineering.

 

[ca1ore]

What is it you do not like on the Emergency? i have found that it can drain ALOT of water fast. thats not the issue and I have little doubt that if it ever got right near the top of the box and hit the emergency it would cope fine.
As to the baffle do you have a pic of what you have done?

But it's related to your noise issue. The only way to tame the noise is to further raise the water level in the external box. This will run you into an emergency height issue where there may not be enough space between the top of the emergency and the rim of the box (though in all cases the top of the emergency must be below the equilibrium level of water in the display). With a typical 1" or even 1 1/2" emergency stand pipe, the mouth is too small to allow the kind of flow necessary if you are pushing to the limits of the overflow and wanting silence. The easiest way to solve this is to upsize the pipe significantly or just put in a baffle that isolates the emergency bulkhead (as long as the external box is not too narrow). I've done both. On my current unit I upsized the pipe to 3" so that if the emergency were required to handle 100% of the flow, it would not build up much above the rim of that larger pipe. This allows me to get much closer to the top rim of the box. I don't have a great picture, but here are a couple. Don't be confused by the 'extra' drains (5 in all) as I try to use gravity as much as possible to feed various things in my system. The three center drains would represent a more typical bean setup.

 

[Erica-Renee]

When in danger, blame your customers!

The overflow can move a bunch of water. I was pushing over 1800gph, and it handled it no problem. Would handle a good bit more for sure.

Yes just as i said in my post it can handle much more water I am pushing around 2200 tested with bucket method so might be a bit off . The issue is at this level there is so much turbulence its pushing debris back into the tank in the area between the top of the water about 3/4 way up on the teeth to the bottom of the teeth. I have tried to take pictures of this but because of where the box is on my tank i just cant get one. But of course the issue is my Tried and true Drain method , and the Debris will just setting to the bottom and be OK.. This goes completely against the reason we want so much water moving thru a larger tank . To pull debris out before it can settle in the tank itself.. It seems changing the rules is easier then just saying We were wrong and Need to work on solutions .

 

[behold81]

To get the water level to rise restrict the flow using your gate valve...you shouldn’t have to move the u-pipes. It looks like you have them staggered correctly.

Ah but then I get loads of noise from the secondary
Can't win!!

 

[behold81]

Mine had salt creep everywhere, even creeping down the plumbing. Had to seal up the lid with a small gasket. Like I said, terrible engineering.

Don't have that issue. the only creep is any round the bulkheads in to the tank. that is all down to the paint. as my returns do the same. but the silicone makes it very minor.

 

[rushbattle]

Don't have that issue. the only creep is any round the bulkheads in to the tank. that is all down to the paint. as my returns do the same. but the silicone makes it very minor.

No idea why mine had such bad creep. But sealing it up solved it obviously. How hard is it to leave a groove for a gasket when designing the mold for the box?

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

behold81,

EMS made me a whole new overflow as I want nothing to do with synergy.
I know that others have had them just make the rear box with success. Contact them here if you want to come up with a solution that actually gives you a properly functioning overflow/drain. Then you will be done with all the fiddling and diy solutions that dont work.

It is frustrating to have to rebuy, but sometimes we have to admit mistakes and pay the price to remedy them.

Good luck, sorry you got burned by synergy reef shadow.

 

[ca1ore]

BTW, this is an excellent perspective (and of course blatantly commercial LOL) ….


Although I ended up with a Modular Marine unit (they were more willing to accommodate by customizations), I strongly considered EMS.

 

[Ryan420r6]

Ah but then I get loads of noise from the secondary
Can't win!!

On closer inspection of your u-pipes it looks like your secondary is quite a bit higher than your main. Did you do this on purpose? Synergy recommends only a 3/4 inch difference in height. More water could exit through your secondary without worry of reaching your emergency. What noise are you getting if you push more flow through your secondary? If it’s air you can add a small piece of airline to the hole (I had to do this to mine).

 

[rushbattle]

On closer inspection of your u-pipes it looks like your secondary is quite a bit higher than your main. Did you do this on purpose? Synergy recommends only a 3/4 inch difference in height. More water could exit through your secondary without worry of reaching your emergency. What noise are you getting if you push more flow through your secondary? If it’s air you can add a small piece of airline to the hole (I had to do this to mine).

It’s raised up to make the setup quieter from a shorter drop in the skimmer box. It’s a lose-lose with this design, but it’s definitely perfect and doesn’t need any improvements.

 

[behold81]

No idea why mine had such bad creep. But sealing it up solved it obviously. How hard is it to leave a groove for a gasket when designing the mold for the box?

There is a grove on the lid though so while no gasket it should still be able to stop creep as its a good barrier. at least on mine. getting the lid off is not loose at all.

On closer inspection of your u-pipes it looks like your secondary is quite a bit higher than your main. Did you do this on purpose? Synergy recommends only a 3/4 inch difference in height. More water could exit through your secondary without worry of reaching your emergency. What noise are you getting if you push more flow through your secondary? If it’s air you can add a small piece of airline to the hole (I had to do this to mine).

yes the primary too high causes noise from the air hole causing a venturi so running it lower solves this. also if you get a small fluctuation the water has time to return to normal level with no gurgling as no air gets in. I don't see how having them so close makes any difference. happy to be explained why.

 

[behold81]

behold81,

EMS made me a whole new overflow as I want nothing to do with synergy.
I know that others have had them just make the rear box with success. Contact them here if you want to come up with a solution that actually gives you a properly functioning overflow/drain. Then you will be done with all the fiddling and diy solutions that dont work.

It is frustrating to have to rebuy, but sometimes we have to admit mistakes and pay the price to remedy them.

Good luck, sorry you got burned by synergy reef shadow.

Agree. I will need quite a shallow overflow. that was one of the attractions to this unit. how thin it was..... Alas that does not seem to have helped. I will have a look and see if they fit. I live in the UK so will cost me more to have them shipped over than for you guys.

 

[ca1ore]

I don't see how having them so close makes any difference. happy to be explained why.

It doesn't. You should have the primary as low down as possible and the secondary as high as possible (but not so high that the emergency engages before it can go siphon). You want the majority of the drain water to be handled by the primary siphon; the secondary should be a trickle (otherwise it gets noisy).

 

[cracker]

Don't know if this was mentioned . Do you use the Utubes? I run mine open . I don't see or hear any problems & never could figure why they are necessary .
I do have to fill the box very high to keep water from crashing into the external box. just enough to cover the bulkheads.
Anyway it "might " make a difference.

 

[behold81]

Don't know if this was mentioned . Do you use the Utubes? I run mine open . I don't see or hear any problems & never could figure why they are necessary .
I do have to fill the box very high to keep water from crashing into the external box. just enough to cover the bulkheads.
Anyway it "might " make a difference.

Thinking of trying an open secondary to allow this. Might allow some height.

 

[behold81]

BTW, this is an excellent perspective (and of course blatantly commercial LOL) ….


Although I ended up with a Modular Marine unit (they were more willing to accommodate by customizations), I strongly considered EMS.

Nice videos. I will look at these.

 

[saltwaterpicaso]

I cut a second drain pipe about an inch more than the recommended and it helped a lot its very quite now and I also have the same salt creep issue what did you make your gasket out of do you have any pictures of it. it is known these are not dead silent at higher flow rates but once set up right its pretty close. in the other forums that people were complaining it was said that the holes going threw the tank need to be completely covered with water and the valve adjusted so that the water barely flows threw the second drain, the noise is air chugging threw the second drain