3 weeks of cipper and still ich?

Mrcote1 · Jul 11, 2018

I have a 20 gallon permanent QT. Ive had 2 gladiator clowns and a starry blenny in QT for almost 2 months now. Im on about week 3 of copper using coppersafe. I am using the Hanna Copper checker to test copper levels and I am maintaining a level of 2.5ppm (yes I know this is higher than recommended). The reason for the higher level is I was using API test kits for the first week, and I thought I was at about 1.5 to 2ppm, then purchased a hanna and it said I was at 3ppm. So i brought levels down to 2.5. But even after 3 weeks one of my clownfish still has ich spots all over it.

All fish acting normal and eating like pigs. Temp is at 80 and salinity at 1.025. No ammonia, no nitrite and very little nitrate (less than 10ppm)

Anybody know why the ich has yet to clear up at such high copper levels for 3 weeks?
Thank you

Crabs McJones · Jul 11, 2018

Do you have pictures of the fish in question? Is it possible its not ich and something else like Lympho which is a viral infection? @Humblefish may be able to help as well.

Mrcote1 · Jul 11, 2018

Mrcote1 · Jul 11, 2018

the other clown and blenny do not appear to have any spots, no fish are breathing rapidly, and no fish have flashed since beginning of treatment.

Crabs McJones · Jul 11, 2018

How often did you check your level? Is it possible the level dipped down past therapeutic levels, which would then restart the 30 day treatment?We'll see if Humblefish chimes in at all, and i'll also tag @Big G

theMeat · Jul 11, 2018

Normal. It’s all about where/when their(ich) lifecycle. The white spots is when they fall off the fish. Pretty sure copper is pretty useless while the ich is attached to and feeding on the fish. Once it falls off fish, few days later eggs hatch, copper kills it and done.

Do another week or two of copper. Followed by a month of observation

Halal Hotdog · Jul 11, 2018

To my knowledge on average it takes 3-9 days for the Ich parasite to fall off the fish. Two months is a long time for fish to still be infected. Was there a period of time where copper was below therapeutic dosage? Have you thought about switching gears and trying CP?

Edit: just noticed that you said they have been in QT for 2 months, but receiving treatment for only 3 weeks.

Mrcote1 · Jul 11, 2018

Copper has not even fallen below 2ppm, so it is not possible that it could be a lack of copper. 1st week of copper all white dots cleared up on all fish. Then on week two one of my clowns got many of the white dots back. Now on week 3 there are still white dots on my orange clown (although there are less dots)

Mrcote1 · Jul 11, 2018

And yes, I did a couple weeks of observation for the clowns, then introduced the blenny and started treating one round of prazi while binding metroplex to food using focus. Then it appeared that velvet showed up on the fish, so I quickly switched over to running copper and then after observing a bit more I was unsure if it was ich or velvet. But continued on with copper. One week later spots were gone, and here we are! A new round of issues as usual haha. Now I am almost certain I am dealing with ich but Im no expert

Halal Hotdog · Jul 11, 2018

I would agree with the above post, 1-1.5 weeks more of copper and evaluate. I have personally gotten away from copper and only use CP. Very very happy with CP. For starters it is not a poison for the fish. Very effective with low risk. I would definitely do copper for a while longer than evaluate. If you still have signs of a parasite then I would switch over to CP immediately. I have been talking with Humblefish about his experiences over the years on multiple fish and CP. He has never had a fish treated with Rx quality CP and have parasites after two weeks of treatment.

Mrcote1 · Jul 11, 2018

My only issue is CP doesnt work with wrasse and wrasse are my favorite. I plan on doing a round of 3 different wrasse through qt next.

Big G · Jul 11, 2018

You posted that the fish have been in copper for 3 weeks. How long have they been at "minimum therapeutic level"?
The white spots are not Ich; they are the wound left when the Ich drops off and the fish's immune system reacts with a mucus build up (white spot) to heal.

mitch91175 · Jul 11, 2018

You can also do hypo salinity at the same time of doing copper which should help with any ich. A freshwater dip work wonders as well

Mrcote1 · Jul 11, 2018

I was at therapeutic levels on june 22nd. And ive debated the freshwater dip. I also have acriflavine that Ive tossed around the idea of using as well but I dont want to kill the fish by overloading them with treatments. This is my first run at QT. I used to never qt but im not gonna experience another tank wipeout

Big G · Jul 11, 2018

Mrcote1 said:
I was at therapeutic levels on june 22nd.

So you are at about 2 1/2 weeks. Not unusual for a few wounds to remain as the cycle of parasites die off. Copper usually only kills the parasites in their free swimming stage. So it takes a few days for the encysted parasites to drop off, encyst and then become free swimmers.

tgrick · Jul 11, 2018

It looks like ick...my issue is it's been a long time in copper. Those wounds should be gone by now. So if not ick can it be Brook? The fish does not have the mucus layer but the copper might be causing it to show like spots instead of the tradition mucus cover? Possibly? I have used Acriflavin with great success but I do worry about too much stress. That said, if you decide to do the hour bath I would aerate heavily and go from there.

What would I do? I would try to find CP. Some LFS have it and some are willing to "share." Then again, others are not. YMMV...