45 Day Fallow periods

[ScottB]

hi
question, i put new lps in a fallow tank, so the days count starts from zero.
however, I gave them a 2-minute bath in NOT diluted 3% hydrogen peroxide, could it be a good treatment and I don't have to start the count again???
what are the things that will surely be dead with this immersion?

Wow. You put a coral in straight 3% H2O2?

Keep us informed. I would speculate that nothing will survive that including the coral. What type of LPS was it?

 

[Gildo]

Wow. You put a coral in straight 3% H2O2?

Keep us informed. I would speculate that nothing will survive that including the coral. What type of LPS was it?

@ScottB the corals are these in the photo, I took the photo now, the dive 3 days ago. They are fine as you can see! But the effect of immersion is very impressive! a lot of foam, they produce a lot of mucus they are covered in white .... and you say to yourself: "ok I burned them!" but then you put they in the tank you shake well and everything is ok!

 

[ScottB]

@ScottB the corals are these in the photo, I took the photo now, the dive 3 days ago. They are fine as you can see! But the effect of immersion is very impressive! a lot of foam, they produce a lot of mucus they are covered in white .... and you say to yourself: "ok I burned them!" but then you put they in the tank you shake well and everything is ok!

Glad to hear they are doing okay. Learn something new every day.

 

[jasonrusso]

Velvet has a more rapid lifecycle than ich/crypt and is similar in reproduction. Why do we not make the determination that velvet would also starve itself out at higher temperatures?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Velvet has a more rapid lifecycle than ich/crypt and is similar in reproduction. Why do we not make the determination that velvet would also starve itself out at higher temperatures?

It probably does, but velvet is rarer, so there is not as many examples to work from. One thing not to do with either parasite is to raise the temperature while there is an infection on fish in the tank - that just causes the protozoans to reproduce faster, and velvet already reproduces so fast that it is difficult to cure in time.

Jay

 

[jasonrusso]

It probably does, but velvet is rarer, so there is not as many examples to work from. One thing not to do with either parasite is to raise the temperature while there is an infection on fish in the tank - that just causes the protozoans to reproduce faster, and velvet already reproduces so fast that it is difficult to cure in time.

Jay

This is only a graph for a week, but this is consistent with the temperatures I have been running since I have been fallow. I'm coming up on 6 weeks this Saturday and I'm very concerned about my dwarf moray eel who hasn't eaten since I removed him. Treatment ended 2 weeks ago.

I'm 99% sure I had velvet (see the picture of my PJ cardinal). I'm leaning towards reintroducing the eel soon.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

This is only a graph for a week, but this is consistent with the temperatures I have been running since I have been fallow. I'm coming up on 6 weeks this Saturday and I'm very concerned about my dwarf moray eel who hasn't eaten since I removed him. Treatment ended 2 weeks ago.

I'm 99% sure I had velvet (see the picture of my PJ cardinal). I'm leaning towards reintroducing the eel soon.

The spots on the cardinalfish are not velvet. Was it breathing fast? More likely, that fish has long term marine ich, Cryptocaryon. It is possible for a fish to have both ich and velvet at the same time.

Marine Velvet, Amyloodinium gets misrepresented in the literature as having "small spots". That is a misdiagnosis from freshwater Oodinium, a different species. Typically, with marine velvet, you see the fish stop eating, breath very fast and hang in water currents. At the very end of the infection you may see some haziness on the skin.

Jay

 

[jasonrusso]

The spots on the cardinalfish are not velvet. Was it breathing fast? More likely, that fish has long term marine ich, Cryptocaryon. It is possible for a fish to have both ich and velvet at the same time.

Marine Velvet, Amyloodinium gets misrepresented in the literature as having "small spots". That is a misdiagnosis from freshwater Oodinium, a different species. Typically, with marine velvet, you see the fish stop eating, breath very fast and hang in water currents. At the very end of the infection you may see some haziness on the skin.

Jay

All were breathing heavy, but that is whenever a fish is stressed from anything in my experience.

They did stop eating (I have 2 that looked the same). Never did the powerhead thing. My black blenny turned a different shade (he died) which I understood is velvet.

My puffer in the other tank (I infected 2 tanks) was pretty covered and his skin was peeling a bit when he died. My lionfish had cloudy eyes. If you still feel it was crypt then that is actually better.

What do you think about my temperature? If the average is 81degrees then I think I should be nearing the end of the fallow if not already past it. The "other" disease website is treating temperature like a medication. It's quite bizarre. "If the temp drops below 81 then you need to start the 6 weeks again." It isn't like the parasite resets it life cycle because the temperature dropped for a few hours.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

All were breathing heavy, but that is whenever a fish is stressed from anything in my experience.

They did stop eating (I have 2 that looked the same). Never did the powerhead thing. My black blenny turned a different shade (he died) which I understood is velvet.

My puffer in the other tank (I infected 2 tanks) was pretty covered and his skin was peeling a bit when he died. My lionfish had cloudy eyes. If you still feel it was crypt then that is actually better.

What do you think about my temperature? If the average is 81degrees then I think I should be nearing the end of the fallow if not already past it. The "other" disease website is treating temperature like a medication. It's quite bizarre. "If the temp drops below 81 then you need to start the 6 weeks again." It isn't like the parasite resets it life cycle because the temperature dropped for a few hours.

Correct - the clock does not "reset" if the temperature drops. The only argument could be made that if the temperature drops, the fallow period would extend by that same amount of time. That said, I'm not a strong proponent for going for the shortest fallow period possible - you need to examine your motivation for doing so. Is it just impatience? If so, resist the urge and go 6 weeks. If you need to get the fish out of a tank because they are unstable, then an argument can be made to shorten up the fallow period a bit.

Jay

 

[jasonrusso]

Correct - the clock does not "reset" if the temperature drops. The only argument could be made that if the temperature drops, the fallow period would extend by that same amount of time. That said, I'm not a strong proponent for going for the shortest fallow period possible - you need to examine your motivation for doing so. Is it just impatience? If so, resist the urge and go 6 weeks. If you need to get the fish out of a tank because they are unstable, then an argument can be made to shorten up the fallow period a bit.

Jay

Thank you. As I said in my prior post my dwarf eel refuses to eat in QT

 

[jasonrusso]

Correct - the clock does not "reset" if the temperature drops. The only argument could be made that if the temperature drops, the fallow period would extend by that same amount of time. That said, I'm not a strong proponent for going for the shortest fallow period possible - you need to examine your motivation for doing so. Is it just impatience? If so, resist the urge and go 6 weeks. If you need to get the fish out of a tank because they are unstable, then an argument can be made to shorten up the fallow period a bit.

Jay

Also, I did say that this weekend IS 6 weeks. I'm not trying to shorten anything less than the minimum and only trying to lessen the stress on the fish.

 

[jasonrusso]

In terms of hypoxic environments, not sure how that would work - think about this; the tomont is sequestered in a crevice with no oxygen. That in turn limits the heterotrophic bacteria that would otherwise degrade it. At some point though, the tomont forms tomites and these turn into theronts that can somehow maneuver out of the crevice that bacteria were unable to get into?

Do you still believe in this statement? I also find it a bit unreasonable that that in a home aquarium there can be zones where the temperature and water flow are so low that it can create an environment capable of harboring a parasite.

although active infections at 15°C (59°F) have been documented (Diggles and Lester 1996). Encysted stages, off the host (tomonts), were also observed to survive for 2–4 weeks under experimental hypoxic conditions (24% oxygen saturation); these released free-swimming infective stages (theronts) 10–11 days after excystment (

This is such a low temperature that doesn't happen in a home aquarium. I'm not sure why it is even tested.

I say that at 81 degrees F., 45 days is an appropriate fallow periods for Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium and Neobenedenia....this coincides well with a 30 day copper treatment followed by two weeks of copper-free observation.

I'm getting ready to add my fish back into my DT tomorrow after 6 weeks. My 6 year old eel, foxface, and tomini tang aren't happy in QT after being in the DT for as many years. All went through 28 days of Chloroquine. Eel refuses to eat, foxface and tang refuse nori (they would eat a full sheet daily). DT has been 81-83 for weeks trying to burn out the virus. I'll be adding voogle to the DT after the transfer.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Do you still believe in this statement? I also find it a bit unreasonable that that in a home aquarium there can be zones where the temperature and water flow are so low that it can create an environment capable of harboring a parasite.


This is such a low temperature that doesn't happen in a home aquarium. I'm not sure why it is even tested.

I'm getting ready to add my fish back into my DT tomorrow after 6 weeks. My 6 year old eel, foxface, and tomini tang aren't happy in QT after being in the DT for as many years. All went through 28 days of Chloroquine. Eel refuses to eat, foxface and tang refuse nori (they would eat a full sheet daily). DT has been 81-83 for weeks trying to burn out the virus. I'll be adding voogle to the DT after the transfer.

In terms of hypoxic environments, not sure how that would work - think about this; the tomont is sequestered in a crevice with no oxygen. That in turn limits the heterotrophic bacteria that would otherwise degrade it. At some point though, the tomont forms tomites and these turn into theronts that can somehow maneuver out of the crevice that bacteria were unable to get into?

Yeah - I still firmly believe that the idea that Cryptocaryon tomonts can do that is pure bunk. That is all wild conjecture to try and explain how the longevity of tomonts in the petri dish test that was done could possibly relate to an aquarium.

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

Do you still believe in this statement? I also find it a bit unreasonable that that in a home aquarium there can be zones where the temperature and water flow are so low that it can create an environment capable of harboring a parasite.


This is such a low temperature that doesn't happen in a home aquarium. I'm not sure why it is even tested.

I'm getting ready to add my fish back into my DT tomorrow after 6 weeks. My 6 year old eel, foxface, and tomini tang aren't happy in QT after being in the DT for as many years. All went through 28 days of Chloroquine. Eel refuses to eat, foxface and tang refuse nori (they would eat a full sheet daily). DT has been 81-83 for weeks trying to burn out the virus. I'll be adding voogle to the DT after the transfer.

I think the point I was trying to make - the post was from a while ago - is that in different conditions strains of CI can perhaps survive longer (or shorter). So lets say you have a bucket of sand, etc taken out of your tank - and let it sit - I suppose it would be possible to have CI survive longer - There was never an idea that 15C would be seen in a home tank. I believe the people that are suggesting that anaerobic conditions can lengthen survival are being used to explain why sometimes - when people mix up a sand bed - that suddenly a tank with no CI - developed it.

 

[Hyphnx]

Today marked by tank being fishless for 45 days. The temperature has been steady at 83f the entire time. Fish have been in QT with copper for the entire 45 days.

Does anyone have any luck with the 45 day Fallow period?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Today marked by tank being fishless for 45 days. The temperature has been steady at 83f the entire time. Fish have been in QT with copper for the entire 45 days.

Does anyone have any luck with the 45 day Fallow period?

It’s works for Cryptocaryon, but it is the minimum suggested time. When it fails, it’s commonly tracked back to poor biosecurity. For example, you’ll hear somebody say that their fallow period failed. When asked how the quarantined their new fish, they say they didn't (grin).

Jay

 

[Hyphnx]

It’s works for Cryptocaryon, but it is the minimum suggested time. When it fails, it’s commonly tracked back to poor biosecurity. For example, you’ll hear somebody say that their fallow period failed. When asked how the quarantined their new fish, they say they didn't (grin).

Jay

Oh yikes. The QT has been at 2.10 Copper Power since July 5th. I was going to wait an additional week before doing the Black Molly test after acclimating the Molly for 3 days.

 

[MnFish1]

Oh yikes. The QT has been at 2.10 Copper Power since July 5th. I was going to wait an additional week before doing the Black Molly test after acclimating the Molly for 3 days.

The black Molly test does not work for a number of reasons and can introduce problems. I would not do it. The current recommendations for copper are 2.5

 

[Hyphnx]

The black Molly test does not work for a number of reasons and can introduce problems. I would not do it. The current recommendations for copper are 2.5

I thought it was 2.0 to 2.5

 

[MnFish1]

I thought it was 2.0 to 2.5

the current recommendations are around 2.5. Which product are you using