45 Day Fallow periods

[Hyphnx]

the current recommendations are around 2.5. Which product are you using

Coppersafe.

I should also note that some of the fish that were infected and went into QT, they were in with copper levels at 2.10. I gave them away after 3 weeks and advised the new owner to do an observation period and those fish are healthy and disease free.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Oh yikes. The QT has been at 2.10 Copper Power since July 5th. I was going to wait an additional week before doing the Black Molly test after acclimating the Molly for 3 days.

Skip the black Molly test, cool theory, but it has some major issues. First, the Molly itself can bring diseases into you tank, some diseases cross freshwater to saltwater. Then, ich can take weeks to months to show up on the mollies. Best idea is to run a good fallow and properly quarantine all new fish going in to the tank.
Jay

 

[Hyphnx]

Skip the black Molly test, cool theory, but it has some major issues. First, the Molly itself can bring diseases into you tank, some diseases cross freshwater to saltwater. Then, ich can take weeks to months to show up on the mollies. Best idea is to run a good fallow and properly quarantine all new fish going in to the tank.
Jay

Okay, I fill fight the urge and go another week. I also saw that stirring the sand bed was recommended. Would a couple sand sifting stars, conches and a few dozen nassarius snails suffice? They have been in the tank since before I went fishless

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Okay, I fill fight the urge and go another week. I also saw that stirring the sand bed was recommended. Would a couple sand sifting stars, conches and a few dozen nassarius snails suffice? They have been in the tank since before I went fishless

If you stir the sand bed, you should siphon it at the same time.

Jay

 

[Hyphnx]

If you stir the sand bed, you should siphon it at the same time.

Jay

Okay. I will tackle that tomorrow.

Is 2.10 an acceptable copper range for QT?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Okay. I will tackle that tomorrow.

Is 2.10 an acceptable copper range for QT?

I shoot for 2.5, but anything above 2 is effective.
Jay

 

[Hyphnx]

I shoot for 2.5, but anything above 2 is effective.
Jay

Thank you for your input and expertise.

 

[adinath]

It's interesting that Colorni and Burgess' article references Colorni's PhD thesis which unfortunately we can't review. And yeah, it does raise some questions when one of the authors is also the editor of the journal that published it. Conflict of interest much? And then we have Noga in 2010 referencing the same article but giving a fallow period of 72 days instead. Talk about adding more confusion to the mix!

I feel, let's not get too caught up in all these conflicting numbers and questionable references. From what you've gathered, it seems like the actual viability of tomonts might vary depending on factors like temperature and bacterial presence.

Good to know that your findings aligns nicely with a 30-day copper treatment followed by two weeks of observation without copper. Thanks again for sharing your findings.

 

[Reefer1978]

@Jay Hemdal on day 40 of fallow period in one of my tanks, I realized apex temp probe was off by 2 degrees and tank was 78-79F. I raised it up to 81, and I am wondering how long to continue the fallow period for. Today is day 43. Any recommendations?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

It's interesting that Colorni and Burgess' article references Colorni's PhD thesis which unfortunately we can't review. And yeah, it does raise some questions when one of the authors is also the editor of the journal that published it. Conflict of interest much? And then we have Noga in 2010 referencing the same article but giving a fallow period of 72 days instead. Talk about adding more confusion to the mix!

I feel, let's not get too caught up in all these conflicting numbers and questionable references. From what you've gathered, it seems like the actual viability of tomonts might vary depending on factors like temperature and bacterial presence.

Good to know that your findings aligns nicely with a 30-day copper treatment followed by two weeks of observation without copper. Thanks again for sharing your findings.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I guess the issue I have isn't so much with the research paper itself (though I'm not sure how rigorous the peer review process was) but rather, there is a well-known aquarist in the US who scans this scientific literature and then broadly extrapolates the information he reads into advice for home aquarists. Sometimes this works, but often it misses the mark, as in this case. That incorrect information then gains a life of its own on the Internet....

I should reinforce that I believe that 45 days is the minimum for Cryptocaryon at warmer temperatures, but I often use 60 days in cases where there is any question regarding the disease involved, or if folks want to be a bit more conservative.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal on day 40 of fallow period in one of my tanks, I realized apex temp probe was off by 2 degrees and tank was 78-79F. I raised it up to 81, and I am wondering how long to continue the fallow period for. Today is day 43. Any recommendations?

Nobody really knows. 78-79 is pretty cool, I would go out 60 days, just to be safe.

Jay

 

[Hyphnx]

If you stir the sand bed, you should siphon it at the same time.

Jay

Does moving ALL the rock while catching the fish count? ;p

 

[nereefpat]

Does moving ALL the rock while catching the fish count? ;p

Just extra bonus fun!

 

[Hyphnx]

Okay, just spend about an hour siphoning the sand and then used the flow from the water storage pump to spray out the rocks. Will probably do another round of cleaning tomorrow

 

[Hyphnx]

I have added the two clownfish into the tank. Tank has been fishless since 7/5 at 83/84f. Going to slowly start adding the fish back. They have been in their copper QT @ 2.10 for 3 weeks and then spent two weeks in an observation tank.

 

[stambo3]

Hello,
I just want to diagnose this fish. I am new and had not seen live Tang until now. I asked for a mimic tang from a store, they offered me others, assuring me that they had already passed quarantine. Mimic had a brown spot on his tail when I got him. I thought that something might be wrong, but the store is reputable here and I believed that everything was ok. I didn't run my own quarantine, but placed it directly at the 2nd clown in my main display. Mimic tang started to eat normally and I decided that I was in vain to worry. Well, on the third day at my place he stopped eating, and on the 10th he died, his tail looked chewed off / I thought the clowns had bitten him /. Is this what you think is Amyloodinium ocellatum? I didn't take any more pictures, I got so stressed, I ran to buy medicine, load quarantine display and I couldn't save it, it was too late. Finally, all the fins were brown and he could not swim or breathe normally. I didn't think to take a picture, my heart hurt. Now I'm going to buy 2 molynesians and see if I should quarantine for 76 days, the clowns are fine and eating normally, no signs of illness.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hello,
I just want to diagnose this fish. I am new and had not seen live Tang until now. I asked for a mimic tang from a store, they offered me others, assuring me that they had already passed quarantine. Mimic had a brown spot on his tail when I got him. I thought that something might be wrong, but the store is reputable here and I believed that everything was ok. I didn't run my own quarantine, but placed it directly at the 2nd clown in my main display. Mimic tang started to eat normally and I decided that I was in vain to worry. Well, on the third day at my place he stopped eating, and on the 10th he died, his tail looked chewed off / I thought the clowns had bitten him /. Is this what you think is Amyloodinium ocellatum? I didn't take any more pictures, I got so stressed, I ran to buy medicine, load quarantine display and I couldn't save it, it was too late. Finally, all the fins were brown and he could not swim or breathe normally. I didn't think to take a picture, my heart hurt. Now I'm going to buy 2 molynesians and see if I should quarantine for 76 days, the clowns are fine and eating normally, no signs of illness.

Sorry, that spot is very small and superficial, it isn't something that I can diagnose, not without a a picture or video from when the fish was closer to death.

Amyloodinium doesn't cause tail damage like that, only rapid breathing. However, fish can have more than one problem at a time.

I would skip the molliensia, they really will not tell you anything - just watch the clownfish that were exposed to this fish to see if they develop any problems. I would wait at least 30 days to ensure that the tang did not bring some disease into your tank that could affect the other fish.


Jay

 

[stambo3]

Съжалявам, това място е много малко и повърхностно, не е нещо, което мога да диагностицирам, не и без снимка или видео от момента, в който рибата е била близо до смъртта.

Амилодиниумът не причинява такова увреждане на опашката, а само учестено дишане. Рибите обаче могат да имат повече от един проблем наведнъж.

Бих пропуснал molliensia, те наистина няма да ви кажат нищо - просто наблюдавайте рибите клоуни, които са били изложени на тази риба, за да видите дали ще развият някакви проблеми. Бих изчакал най-малко 30 дни, за да се уверя, че тангът не е донесъл някаква болест в аквариума ви, която може да засегне другите риби.


Джей

Thank you very much Jay Hemdal,
I'm ready for 76 days of quarantine, but I thought so too, and 14 days have already passed without problems. Other than the clowns no other fish were put in the display, is there any possibility that I was to blame for the illness and death of the fish. As a new aquarium, I check all the parameters every other day and everything is ok /I do regular water changes every week 10%/, I had cyano but it passed, now there is only algae and LPS corals and snails. Did I kill that fish?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you very much Jay Hemdal,
I'm ready for 76 days of quarantine, but I thought so too, and 14 days have already passed without problems. Other than the clowns no other fish were put in the display, is there any possibility that I was to blame for the illness and death of the fish. As a new aquarium, I check all the parameters every other day and everything is ok /I do regular water changes every week 10%/, I had cyano but it passed, now there is only algae and LPS corals and snails. Did I kill that fish?

No, I do not think you had any direct effect on the outcome of the tang living or not. I think it had some issue (still unknown) when you bought it.

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

No, I do not think you had any direct effect on the outcome of the tang living or not. I think it had some issue (still unknown) when you bought it.

Jay

I thought of 2 things - it could be an early infection which for some reason spread or - 2 the lesion had nothing to do with the problem, but one of your parameters was off (which doesn't make sense since your corals are ok?). It's hard to tell now after the fact - can you describe what happened during the time you owned it - to me your water looks a little cloudy.

Other than that, sorry about your loss, and I would go with the fallow period as recommended. However, you need to take the clown out to do that - and I would put it in a QT tank and treat with the protocol if thats possible.