5 Months, No Water Changes... Nutrient Control and Trace Element Dosing, huh?

[PerplexyHexy]

In September last year I had a huge po4 spike and setup some rowaphos in a reactor... I was doing 20% water changes weekly using natural sea water from Birch Aquarium down in San Diego... Water changes had little effect on nutrient export because no3 and po4 levels are moderate/high in that water already. I was feeding frozen food way too much because my work schedule and things got out of hand quick... I had algae everywhere killing all of my corals. I then invested in auto feeders to have the same amount of food fed Daily... Took me a few weeks to dial in the feeders and watch when my no3 and po4 dipped/spiked... switched to pellet food in feeders and fed frozen 1-2 times a month. Pulled rowaphos and was tweaking auto feeders accordingly to balance out nutrient levels. In the process of finding that sweet spot, no3 and po4 bottomed out. Then came the dinos and then red/green cyano as well.. It was then that I decided to go the no water change route...

This setup has been up for 15 months. Its a mixed reef coral growout system consisting of zoas, lps, sps and anemones. I have a 400 gallon total water volume system now spread out on 3 tanks with 150 gallons being sump real estate... 300-350lbs live rock all secluded in a tub and all tanks are bare bottom with zero sand/substrate. I have a massive refugium thats around 50 gallons total with a combination of cuelerpa, chaeto, dragons breath, and codium... I decided to make this my heart and soul of my nutrient export... I run a 300w grow light on my 30 gallon fuge in my 100 gallon sump and a kessil h80 on the other fuge I made in my 100 gallon live rock trough... I decided to set fuge photoperiod to 12hrs opposite my light schedule and stuck with that... Consistently dialing in feeders and utilizing fuge as nutrient export It was then that I began seeing consistent nutrient levels and staying absolutely steady at 20 no3 and .05-.08 po4...

That was back in October last year... I started to notice that corals weren’t looking very lively and were looking pretty bland... So I looked into trace element programs... I decided to use Seachem’s Reef Plus and Trace... I chose Seachem’s trace element program because it is an AIO easy two part solution with multiple trace elements blended into one solution. Also because what @revhtree asked earlier in a post, I am brand loyal with Seachem’s products. Its all personal preference... I now dose 40ml of Plus and Trace each on different days twice a week with skimmer shutting off for 2 hours after dosing for it all to settle in water column...

Since then I have noticed an extremely liveliness within my system... Coralline algae growing like mad, corals look great and fish as well... Everything has never looked better... I run my system as natural as I can... I have never used chemicals nor carbon. I use a carx to keep my big 3 levels right on track... My system has been rock solid since October, no water changes. Going on 5 months... Yes, it can be done... Looking forward to getting an ICP analysis done here in a few months to see a broader view of what my water looks like after 6 months with no water changes...Wow, long story... Let me hear your successful/unsuccessful stories with trace element dosing programs and how you implement it into whatever water change schedule you prefer...

 

[PerplexyHexy]

Also note that Reef Plus contains necessary amino acids in addition to a full complement of trace minerals and high amounts of vitamin C and B complex vitamins.

 

[Dorinda]

Also note that Reef Plus contains necessary amino acids in addition to a full complement of trace minerals and high amounts of vitamin C and B complex vitamins.

Wow! Looks great! That's my goal. But with a 75 gallon tank.

 

[x2uranium]

Nice. I don’t doseanything. At all my reef is thriving. Haven’t done a water change In four months. I think the fact that the carx is also giving you a ton of trace elements. Keep
It up sir. If it works keep at it.

 

[PerplexyHexy]

Nice. I don’t doseanything. At all my reef is thriving. Haven’t done a water change In four months. I think the fact that the carx is also giving you a ton of trace elements. Keep
It up sir. If it works keep at it.

Ive been trying to find if anyone has actually really found out if thats true or not... I remember reading someone on here discussing with @Randy Holmes-Farley if trace elements actually get released from th coral skeletons along side with Ca and Mg... The idea of running a ICP test on the carx effluent came up, but I never got back to reading it... Ill have to find that

 

[X-37B]

Nice system! My 120 8 months old no water change.
Dose DSR trace and esv strontium.
Run tuze carx with tunze media for the big 2.
DSR ez trace is now available in the US through deltec.
I run bare bottom in the 120 and my newer 45 frag system.

 

[PerplexyHexy]

Nice system! My 120 8 months old no water change.
Dose DSR trace and esv strontium.
Run tuze carx with tunze media for the big 2.
DSR ez trace is now available in the US through deltec.
I run bare bottom in the 120 and my newer 45 frag system.

I totally forgot about DSR... Reading about that program really is what made me wanna try what Im doing now...

 

[x2uranium]

My logic on the matter... if your taking the entire skeletal remains of coral and re-dissolving then to re create new coral it’s like the ultimate life cycle... I use reborn media by the way. Also if I ever have any big colonies that die off.. I wait about a week in a bucket.. wash them thoroughly and pop them in the reactor lol.. has not failed me yet.

 

[X-37B]

I totally forgot about DSR...

I used it for 1.5 years on my 18" cubed nano before setting up the 120.
I setup the 120 following Glenns method except I use a carx for big 2.
Have to only dose strontium weekly as its not in DSR.

 

[X-37B]

My logic on the matter... if your taking the entire skeletal remains of coral and re-dissolving then to re create new coral it’s like the ultimate life cycle... I use reborn media by the way. Also if I ever have any big colonies that die off.. I wait about a week in a bucket.. wash them thoroughly and pop them in the reactor lol.. has not failed me yet.

Curious? Do you test for strontuin or iodine? I do since I dont use coral bones in my carx. I do run the effluent into a small tube of coral bones though.
I base my amount dosed of DSR on iodine and magnesium levels as they are in DSR with other trace elements.
Strontium dose once a week based on testing and DSR dosed daily.
Ws wondering if people running coral bones test for them. Most dont as per reading posts.

 

[PerplexyHexy]

Curious? Do you test for strontuin or iodine? I do since I dont use coral bones in my carx. I do run the effluent into a small tube of coral bones though.
I base my amount dosed of DSR on iodine and magnesium levels as they are in DSR with other trace elements.
Strontium dose once a week based on testing and DSR dosed daily.
Ws wondering if people running coral bones test for them. Most dont as per reading posts.

I only dose 50ml of Aquaforest Component C twice a month... it contains flourine and iodine... Never have tested though...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Also note that Reef Plus contains necessary amino acids in addition to a full complement of trace minerals and high amounts of vitamin C and B complex vitamins.

What is a “necessary” amino acid? Are any necessary to dose?

 

[x2uranium]

A little bit older pic from a moth or two ago
But I don’t test for anything but dkh only once a week or two weeks.. not even p04 or n03 I can tell usually if it’s high or low based on my eye by any off color or algae growth . I then either up my fish feeding or tone it back.

Here’s the proof

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My logic on the matter... if your taking the entire skeletal remains of coral and re-dissolving then to re create new coral it’s like the ultimate life cycle... I use reborn media by the way. Also if I ever have any big colonies that die off.. I wait about a week in a bucket.. wash them thoroughly and pop them in the reactor lol.. has not failed me yet.

I don’t agree, and think many reefers misunderstand these issues, which is often incorrectly pushed by reef companies as well.

Coral skeletons add only what is present in the skeleton, and not elements taken up into coral and algae tissues. Elements such as manganese are rapidly depleted by photosynthetic organisms and it has nothing to do with skeletal deposition.

 

[X-37B]

I don’t agree, and think many reefers misunderstand these issues, which is often incorrectly pushed by reef companies as well.

Coral skeletons add only what is present in the skeleton, and not elements taken up into coral and algae tissues. Elements such as manganese are rapidly depleted by photosynthetic organisms and it has nothing to do with skeletal deposition.

I agree. Thats why I dose trace elements and test.
So far tank is running well at 8 months. Time to send in for a completete test.
Wanted to wait a couple of months once my carx was dialed in to see where im at.

 

[PerplexyHexy]

What is a “necessary” amino acid? Are any necessary to dose?

Is there anything that proves that they do harm? “necessary” was obviously the wrong word to use... lol... I have no idea even if dosing the seachem prime and trace is even doing anything at all... Just simply explaining what I have done the past 5 months and the results Im getting, but I get what your saying... hahahha! My bad... probably copy/paste that from their website is a little misleading... I have a question for you though... Doesn’t inositol and choline work together to create building blocks for healthy growth in any living organism? That coupled with thiamine, iodide, vitamin B12, and vitamin C would make a well balanced cocktail for any living animal/human, correct? It wouldn’t hurt anything? The positives outweigh the negatives I believe, but honestly... what do I know... Im just sitting here trying to act like Im some biologist. hahahahhha! I dont know ****... lol I just wanna pick your brain a little bit... thanks

 

[x2uranium]

So in essence... just out of curiosity randy.... do you think my corals would look better/ grow faster in the event that I dose these elements that are depleting... I know in a scientific sense they should but ... seems like a bit too
Much to add/ test for.. Unless it’s like HGH for my corals but I would doubt I saw any difference at all. I know your the expert in this area.. but I can’t recall even from my time on rc.. back in the day... seeing your corals? Do you have tanks set up.. not trying to be ignorant just curious if you had some? Your knowledge is incredibly informative.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Is there anything that proves that they do harm? “necessary” was obviously the wrong word to use... lol... I have no idea even if dosing the seachem prime and trace is even doing anything at all... Just simply explaining what I have done the past 5 months and the results Im getting, but I get what your saying... hahahha! My bad... probably copy/paste that from their website is a little misleading... I have a question for you though... Doesn’t inositol and choline work together to create building blocks for healthy growth in any living organism? That coupled with thiamine, iodide, vitamin B12, and vitamin C would make a well balanced cocktail for any living animal/human, correct? It wouldn’t hurt anything? The positives outweigh the negatives I believe, but honestly... what do I know... Im just sitting here trying to act like Im some biologist. hahahahhha! I dont know ****... lol I just wanna pick your brain a little bit... thanks

I was just wondering at your intended meaning if necessary. Unless nitrate is too high or bacterial growth is excessive, I doubt there is a problem with dosing amino acids.

All of the chemicals you mention are not needed by all organisms. Some will benefit some organisms. Whether any are beneficial as a supplement in an ordinary reef tank is not clear, in my opinion.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So in essence... just out of curiosity randy.... do you think my corals would look better/ grow faster in the event that I dose these elements that are depleting... I know in a scientific sense they should but ... seems like a bit too
Much to add/ test for.. Unless it’s like HGH for my corals but I would doubt I saw any difference at all. I know your the expert in this area.. but I can’t recall even from my time on rc.. back in the day... seeing your corals? Do you have tanks set up.. not trying to be ignorant just curious if you had some? Your knowledge is incredibly informative.

Some elements clearly can be beneficial to dose in some situations. The owner of reef central added iron for the first time and suddenly his macroalgae greened up from pale and began to grow much faster.

But most trace elements dosing is trial and error, and measurement doesn’t always preclude that need since different chemical forms of the same element have different bioavailability, and we do not know optimal element concentrations for most trace elements.

 

[Saltyanimals]

Is the conclusion here that the CaRx isn’t providing more than the big 2 in the skeleton melting process? Ie. The other trace elements aren’t stored in the skeleton thus isn’t available to be broken down.