6500k T5 Bulbs - Important Spectrums Missing in LEDs?

[fermentedhiker]

I feel like we've wandered too far afield(myself included) from the OPs original post. Regarding the best spectrum for coral growth. The Tullio video was nice but stopped short of being very useful to this discussion. It felt like it was an intro and we needed the next part IMO.

From a practical standpoint I would have thought that if 6500k MH gave markedly superior growth then the indoor coral propagators would never have switched to higher K lighting regardless of what Hobbyists do in their DT's. As in grow them under 6500 until fragging and then display them at 14 or 20 for sales.

 

[tsav87]

I feel like we've wandered too far afield(myself included) from the OPs original post. Regarding the best spectrum for coral growth. The Tullio video was nice but stopped short of being very useful to this discussion. It felt like it was an intro and we needed the next part IMO.

From a practical standpoint I would have thought that if 6500k MH gave markedly superior growth then the indoor coral propagators would never have switched to higher K lighting regardless of what Hobbyists do in their DT's. As in grow them under 6500 until fragging and then display them at 14 or 20 for sales.

Maybe the propagators switched to high K light because it pulls better color out of coral which sells for more than a larger, less vibrant coral? No need to grow them large?

MH/LED hybrid anyone? Lol

 

[tsav87]

Mh/LED hybrid =

 

[pickupman66]

Aaaahhhhhh. But we all want the irridescent glowing neons that don't show well under the 6500k.

 

[tsav87]

Im running all T5 and no complaints. The right bulb combos and water quality (key) pulls some really popping colors for sure.

 

[fermentedhiker]

Maybe the propagators switched to high K light because it pulls better color out of coral which sells for more than a larger, less vibrant coral? No need to grow them large?

MH/LED hybrid anyone? Lol

That's why I mentioned switching to higher K for selling. Because previous posts indicated that 6500 actually led to better color when the blue got turned on as opposed to having them under high K all the time.

 

[pickupman66]

Btw, here are 2 images. 4 months apart. 3rd is a year old. I am a lazy reefer and don't test. Barely dose. But I've had so e good sps growth on the two stags. And some good softie growth. And zoa growth. Could halides be better? This is under a set of hydras. Idk.
Then again I miss my halide shimmer but don't miss the heat into the tank.

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

Maybe the propagators switched to high K light because it pulls better color out of coral which sells for more than a larger, less vibrant coral? No need to grow them large?

MH/LED hybrid anyone? Lol

I tend to agree with fermentedhiker.
Perhaps you’re both right.

 

[oreo54]

As for LEDs, Shaq Dupree runs his Radions on full white spectrum for 3-4 hours each morning and then switches to violet/blue light when the store opens.

From earlier in this thread...

 

[Lasse]

Colours of corals is an interesting question. Unlike most organisms (or some things) – the colours that the human eye see are from two different sources in corals.

1) The common case – reflected colours from ingoing photons from distant sources (Sun, LED, Halides or whatever) These photons of different wavelengths (read colour) reflects to our eye through mostly pigment proteins in the tissue of the coral – it could be a specific photon (read wavelength) or for some colours - a mix of different wavelengths (read mix of photons) If some photons is harmful (or the total sum of them – read intensity) for the coral – they can indeed develop pigments that just reflect that type of photons (wavelengths) all or some of them. This is mainly for photons of high energy levels (read blue) or photons that have large impact of the rate of the photosynthesis (read red or near 680 and 700 nm) It looks like there is an inbuild adaption path for the high energy blue wavelengths but there is some questions if it exist for the red wavelengths i.e. if red wavelength will trig production of protection pigments

2) The fluorescence of corals. Many corals capture photons of different wavelengths (read colour) and send out a new photon of different colour (read wavelength) instead Mostly photons of lesser energy (longer wavelengths). It is mostly wavelengths from 380 – 470 (read blue) that trig fluorescence – and the result will often be green or orange/red photons. This is weak light sources and we call it “pop” when we use blue light. The transfer will make the coral to gain energy, but the importance of fluorescence is rather unknown. The new photons (often green and red) can gain photosynthesise further down in the tissue (especially green (see my last post in this thread) but also red) or give photons optimized for photosynthesis to other corals (or in their own tissue) nearby.

I will continue with how the human eye works in order to see this different lights/colours later on



Sincerely Lasse

 

[jda]

Adam at Battlecorals grows under 6500k with MH and T5 sections. He does use a few LED, but I cannot remember if he ever talks about those.

6500k gets hotter than a more modern 14 or 20k bulb... one downside to some. Keep in mind that when people were killing it with 6500k bulbs, the internet was young, digital cameras were expensive and poor (you had to use a good film camera and scan the printed photo), photo boxes and booths were not a thing yet and nobody had a second setup just to "Glamour Shot" their corals (does anybody besides me even remember what Glamour Shots was?).

The corals grow under 6500k look great the instant that you put them under different light. They just do not photograph well as they sit. 6500k is great at rendering good color in the coral and not so good with illumination of most things. Some corals do look better under 6500k, like poci and stylophora and some leathers, but not enough for me to run them all outside of the frag tank.

 

[shred5]

Let me see if I can get Tullio to weigh in on this discussion since his name has been used in this thread..
He might be busy with Macna coming up..

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Adam at Battlecorals grows under 6500k with MH and T5 sections. He does use a few LED, but I cannot remember if he ever talks about those.

Per Adam in this video, he runs "primarily LEDs with a little bit of halide." The MH he runs are apparently 10,000K. He doesn't mention how many T5 setups he runs. @Battlecorals will have to clarify, but from the sounds of it, most of the lighting in his new facility is LED.

Adam also claims there is no difference in physical appearance between corals grown under MH or LED. He even claims that growth rates are essentially the same. From the same video:

It's tough to say if you think these look better or those look better. ... There's really no distinction between what you see under LED and halides in this case. From what I can see, even growth or color-wise, like, you couldn't say 'Oh these are LED and they look a little muted,' you know what I mean? The results are essentially the same.

This is particularly important to consider since this is all in the same water. The only difference is the lighting, which according to Adam, makes very little difference.

 

[shred5]

Per Adam in this video, he runs "primarily LEDs with a little bit of halide." The MH he runs are apparently 10,000K. He doesn't mention how many T5 setups he runs. @Battlecorals will have to clarify, but from the sounds of it, most of the lighting in his new facility is LED.

Adam also claims there is no difference in physical appearance between corals grown under MH or LED. He even claims that growth rates are essentially the same. From the same video:


This is particularly important to consider since this is all in the same water. The only difference is the lighting, which according to Adam, makes very little difference.

He also posted this a few weeks ago he runs some Iwasaki's 6500k.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/anyone-still-rocking-6500k-iwasakis.425645/

Also in the beginning of the video it shows his lighting layout and not one spot is lit by led only.

I am thinking of stopping over and seeing Adam and see what he has going on there. I have not been too his new place yet even though I was asked to be there for this video and then they wanted to come shoot a video at my place but I could not make it. Adam is a old friend and very good at what he does.

 

[jda]

Post #19 in this thread, actually. Tropics (T5) and 6500k and white at 100% on any LEDs running.

People have commented on how corals that they purchased from him have lost a bit of color once they do not get this spectrum.

 

[shred5]

Just heard back from Tullio he is literally at the airport on his way to Macna. If he finds some time he will reply and will do his best to reply next week..
I think he was already aware of this thread.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

From a practical standpoint I would have thought that if 6500k MH gave markedly superior growth then the indoor coral propagators would never have switched to higher K lighting regardless of what Hobbyists do in their DT's. As in grow them under 6500 until fragging and then display them at 14 or 20 for sales.

With the size of frags being sold today, growth isn’t a concern. People used to sell multi branch frags or mini colonies. Now everything, even from reputable sellers, are single branches an inch or less.

Sellers used to also get called out for posting pics under excessively blue light... but now people actually run their tanks that way so nobody cares anymore...

 

[Lasse]

Our eyes have two main ways of seeing light. One is the intensity (light or dark) – the other our way of seeing colours. These two systems is rather independent of each other.

1)The first is more sensitive to wavelengths around 500 – 600 nm – the lumen window. It is in this window our brain decide if the light is bright or not. We see wavelengths below 500 as less intensive in spit of the fact that they are very energy rich packets of light and a lot of photons below 500 nm we perceive as much weaker than a fewer in the range of 500-600 nm. The shorter the wavelength is (below 500), the less we perceive it as bright as it is in the real world.

2) Our colour vision is based on the intensity of three wavelengths in the blue, green and red area. The brain then translates these signals into all colours. White is by definition an equal mix of all visible wavelengths but because of that the receivers in our eyes just handle blue, green and red – an equal mix of these will give us a sense of white light. E.g. we can trick our self to see white light of only looking at three wavelengths reaching a surface of different type and white is white and we see other reflecting colours too only with help of these three wavelengths.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Sallstrom]

Here's an example of growth under just 2 types of LED diods with a total PAR of 80.

Species: Seriatopora caliendrum, Seriatopora hytrix (red), Seriatopora hytrix (green)
Light hours - 0900-19:00
Diods:
420nm - meassured PAR: 40
660nm - meassured PAR: 40
So about 80 PAR in total (meassured with a Apogee MQ-200 - (I know it's not the best, but that is what we had )

We started the experiment 20180112 and finished it 20180621 - so in total 160 days. Almost half a year.
All three species had three colonies each in this experiment.
Here's the result in gram and %

So in this setup these corals did IMO very well in "low" PAR and with just two types of diods.

This experiment was not a comparison between LED and metal halides. I just borrowed our results to show that corals might not need that much light to grow.

 

[dantimdad]

So in this setup these corals did IMO very well in "low" PAR and with just two types of diods.

This experiment was not a comparison between LED and metal halides. I just borrowed our results to show that corals might not need that much light to grow.

I have been saying this for years. IF you don't need insane growth, you can get by with a LOT less light.