8.0 Ammonia for almost two months

[Water Dog]

Guys at the fish store said with RODI and canister bio, it would not take long, a few days to introduce hermits, snails, etc then fish after tha ....why would they say that?

Because their job is to sell stuff. Our job as responsible hobbyists is to put in the work, research and verify through testing. What are you using for test kits? Are you being consistent with the steps each time you perform a test? I have to think there is at least some factor of testing error by virtue of the fact that you have given 3 different ammonia results over the course of our short conversation.

 

[Vic73]

I would scrap this and start all over. Properly. Toss out all the water. Sand. Clean the rock. Start from scratch with fresh RODI, ammonia, bacteria starter. Obviously this has dragged on forever with no end in sight.

Not sure if you saw but I did this already about a week ago but kept my media.

 

[Vic73]

Because their job is to sell stuff. Our job as responsible hobbyists is to put in the work, research and verify through testing. What are you using for test kits? Are you being consistent with the steps each time you perform a test? I have to think there is at least some factor of testing error by virtue of the fact that you have given 3 different ammonia results over the course of our short conversation.

Yeah I should have said when those were latest this morning was listed at 8.0 again. API kit and following directions. Again not sure what to do.

 

[Vic73]

And what about the PH? Thought PH UP would work but seems to have no effect staying at maybe 7.8?

 

[MnFish1]

Guys at the fish store said with RODI and canister bio, it would not take long, a few days to introduce hermits, snails, etc then fish after tha ....why would they say that?

Because - 99% of time time - this is what happens. I agree that you should drain all the water (again)- I dont think you should clean anything - and re-fill with RODI saltwater. If the ammonia rises again - you will know that its something in your rock/sand that is decomposing faster than the bacteria in your tank can process it. If the ammonia drops to 0 - (and stays there) you will have the solution.

The only other option is testing error. Based on the picture you posted of your ammonia vial - the ammonia level (on that day) was far higher than 8.0.

 

[Roc83]

Well it was the sand I started with in my tank. I combined all kinds of sands from around the world but guess that causes some kind of reaction as the bottom inch was just black dead smelling ....something.

Bought 40 lbs of live sand, another live rock , total water replacement with RODI type. Clear for a few days but ammonia between 1.0 and 4 until a bacteria blooming for the past three days. Cleaned canister bio with tank water and replaced half foams with new pieces as scheduled. The Ammonia has dropped to .25 but my PH was at 7.6. Add PH UP....should I let the bloom run it’s course or do water changes?

Awesome

 

[Roc83]

That’s kinda why you don’t see many using canister filters in the reef aquarium hobby. They tend to trap detritus, and if not cleaned properly, they become what is referred to as “nitrate factories”. That’s why you see so many sumps in the hobby. If a sump is out of the question, something like an Aquaclear HOB power filter may be a better choice due to ease of access and cleaning.

As far as the percent of water change goes, that may depend on what your nitrate number is. As an example, if after the ammonia zeros out and you're getting a nitrate reading of 20ppm, We know that a 50% water change will halve that number to 10ppm, provided you’re doing a water change with pure RODI made saltwater.

Aquaclear 110's are my back ups for all my excellent hob.

 

[MnFish1]

@Vic73 Curious - Are you adding any 'food' to the tank? Did the cloudiness happen after you added the pH up? Did your pH Change?

Its interesting - something does not make sense here. Have you tried re-testing with a different kit besides the one time at the LFS? When you changed your sand and rock - did you take out all of the old - or did you leave some in the tank?

 

[Roc83]

I always let a cycle go for 30 days. Im in no hurry. In one of my fresh tanks my nitrates blew through the roof about two weeks in, 15 days later everything was reading fine. It's frustrating [emoji21] but there's no expensive stock in it, why not be patient and see how it works out. If no change in a week or two, then take drastic measures like re- filling.

 

[Vic73]

I

@Vic73 Curious - Are you adding any 'food' to the tank? Did the cloudiness happen after you added the pH up? Did your pH Change?

Its interesting - something does not make sense here. Have you tried re-testing with a different kit besides the one time at the LFS? When you changed your sand and rock - did you take out all of the old - or did you leave some in the tank?

I Changed only the sand, the live rock I had I put back in with a new rock. I added PH Up one day into the three day bloom. It doesn’t seem to rise.

Does the saltwater ready ocean stuff at Petco work well ? The closest RODI water to me is almost 40 mins away and saw this saltwater mix at Petco by my house.

 

[Vic73]

Wow I cant believe I just read this whole thread. The most depressing thing to me is that no matter my efforts I can only ever seem to attract 3 or 4 responses when I have a question. This OP dumped a few posts without any research effort, then yeeted off into the universe leaving behind the reef science debate of the century. [emoji23]

I did research, performed what was asked and read everything including this not helpful post.

 

[ScottR]

I did research, performed what was asked and read everything including this not helpful post.

I think the advice given here was quite helpful. If you’re still headed in the wrong direction, ask someone with experience to give you personal help.

 

[MnFish1]

I


I Changed only the sand, the live rock I had I put back in with a new rock. I added PH Up one day into the three day bloom. It doesn’t seem to rise.

Does the saltwater ready ocean stuff at Petco work well ? The closest RODI water to me is almost 40 mins away and saw this saltwater mix at Petco by my house.

You mean pre-mixed saltwater in a jug? That could get expensive if you change it all. I would test it - before you use it. But it should work?

The thing that puzzles me is that usually during cycling the ammonia doesnt get anywhere near as high as 8 unless you're over feeding (which you're not right?), there is a problem with the test, or there is something decomposing in the tank (your rock) that you don't know about.

Is it correct that after the water change the ammonia was zero - then rose back to 8 again? It can only be coming from your rock - or something in your filter - or something you're adding to the tank...?

 

[MnFish1]

Well it was the sand I started with in my tank. I combined all kinds of sands from around the world but guess that causes some kind of reaction as the bottom inch was just black dead smelling ....something.

I just happened to see this. So - the bottom inch of the sand in your tank was black and dead smelling? How deep was the sand?
Just to make sure - (not sure you answered this) - did you use some kind of water conditioner? Did you use Prime (which if the ammonia is high - may continue to cause a 'false positive'? Did you use anything in case your tap water had 'chloramines'?

 

[MnFish1]

@brandon429 I guess you have your answer - he changed all the water - and ammonia went back to 8... (if im understanding correctly)

 

[brandon429]

w check

needed to see pics of everything as well, pics of the tester. pic of the adjusted ammonia amnt I set earlier. The reason why is, without an adjusted reading showing the settings nothing can be verified (tester issues verified)
I'm clear on whats been stated, not clear on seeing any aspect of it in the way we outlined to separate test drift. that aspect was critical in separating out the hundred variables at work affecting final reads. if people use Prime one time in the prep step...tests skewed, its really important to follow a certain set of actions to eliminate test issues

 

[brandon429]

I didn't see that he reset all water w .023 sw and then retested ammonia to get a baseline zero. Not seeing that in Vic's updates, w read on to see if missed

I'm trying to see where he did a full wc

 

[MnFish1]

I didn't see that he reset all water w .023 sw and then retested ammonia to get a baseline zero. Not seeing that in Vic's updates, w read on to see if missed

I'm trying to see where he did a full wc

Bought 40 lbs of live sand, another live rock , total water replacement with RODI type. Clear for a few days but ammonia between 1.0 and 4 until a bacteria blooming for the past three days. Cleaned canister bio with tank water and replaced half foams with new pieces as scheduled. The Ammonia has dropped to .25 but my PH was at 7.6. Add PH UP....should I let the bloom run it’s course or do water changes?

I believe 5 days later - this post.

Right now it says 0.0 for nitrate but back to now 8.0 ammonia....I can't believe this!

 

[brandon429]

Gotcha

Vic can you start pic doc now, take pic of ammonia against the indicator card so we can see your 8


What is the claimed source of ammonia after the full water change I don't see ammonium chloride dosing

Where are the organics in the system/locus of ammonia post water change in order to pump 8 ppm and sustain it. A stark, clear presence of something that smells bad is required to be present in the tank, or in the sourcewater. So to validate test, we can easily find this amount of input, 8 is large

Was the water prep Prime used in the prior setup? I looked for any dead animals on live rock portions, page 2 pics, it looks like aged base rock. They don't usually leak ammonia, but if they are, you can raise one up and smell it easily. Whatever drives the ammonia up to 8 ppm in a few days smells notably. don't stamp case closed on sustained large readings until we locate the source, can't wait to hear details. that, n pics of any single reading

 

[Vic73]

That’s kinda why you don’t see many using canister filters in the reef aquarium hobby. They tend to trap detritus, and if not cleaned properly, they become what is referred to as “nitrate factories”. That’s why you see so many sumps in the hobby. If a sump is out of the question, something like an Aquaclear HOB power filter may be a better choice due to ease of access and cleaning.

As far as the percent of water change goes, that may depend on what your nitrate number is. As an example, if after the ammonia zeros out and you're getting a nitrate reading of 20ppm, We know that a 50% water change will halve that number to 10ppm, provided you’re doing a water change with pure RODI made saltwater.

I just ordered an AcquaClear 70 for my 55 gallon tank. Should I run both the canister and this HOB filter? Feels excessive but getting frustrated here and don’t know why I didn’t hear or read about these bad things on canister filters.