Acceptable TDS range

[lapin]

To get back on track:
Rscott said
So my RODI unit brand new from BRS and only has 150 gallons through it is already reading 2 TDS.
I have my town water report and we dont even use chloramines. We have very good water here.
Whats up with that?

 

[Rscott]

I’d have to agree with this opinion after reading all the information. There is clearly a need for the resin to be replaced. If you are getting 3 TDS after the membrane and the resin isn’t taking it down to 0 TDS, then that is the issue.

Again.... after 150 gallons your telling me I need a resin change?????
It doesn’t make any sense

 

[dbjonesjr]

Again.... after 150 gallons your telling me I need a resin change?????
It doesn’t make any sense

Why does it not make sense? I know people who go through resin in 100 gallons. It depends on what is making it through your RO. If it is 100% anions (negative) or cations (positive) (one way or the other) then it will deplete faster because it is only captured by half the resin beads.
Edit: It might be important to understand that ions dissolved in water have positive or negative charge, and that is how the resin captures the ions.

 

[Rscott]

Why does it not make sense? I know people who go through resin in 100 gallons. It depends on what is making it through your RO. If it is 100% anions (negative) or cations (positive) (one way or the other) then it will deplete faster because it is only captured by half the resin beads.
Edit: It might be important to understand that ions dissolved in water have positive or negative charge, and that is how the resin captures the ions.

Because that would be an extreme case , no one changes resin in 150 gallons especially with the water report I have showing our water is excellent

The resin is either not the problem or perhaps the resin was manufactured incorrectly

 

[dbjonesjr]

Because that would be an extreme case , no one changes resin in 150 gallons especially with the water report I have showing our water is excellent

The resin is either not the problem or perhaps the resin was manufactured incorrectly

Water quality good or bad if you are getting 100% either cations or anions after your RO your resin will deplete quicker. CO2 is a possible culprit. If it isn't the resin, what would you or someone else think it could be. You have already said you are getting good TDS after your membrand (3 TDS I believe?) and that rules out essentially any other problems.

 

[W1ngz]

Another possibility is that a brand new RO membrane isn't as efficient until it's fully saturated which can take a toll on the first few batches of water. What was your TDS into the resin when the unit was first used on the first day?

Either way, 3 TDS into the DI stage, 2 TDS out. There's nothing else there but a plastic tube fulled with resin. Maybe it depleted normally, maybe it's because it was brand new, maybe it's something unknown making it through the membrane or maybe the resin was bad to start.

You seem intent to do anything but replace the resin, so I'm out. Good luck.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

@Rscott I don't think that there was ever an answer to the question, "What is the TDS reading of the water entering your RO system?"

Though you have a city water report, unless that water was taken from your tap, you don't know what the water picked up along the way from the tower to your faucet.

I would replace your resin, and see if that fixes the problem.

 

[Rscott]

Water quality good or bad if you are getting 100% either cations or anions after your RO your resin will deplete quicker. CO2 is a possible culprit. If it isn't the resin, what would you or someone else think it could be. You have already said you are getting good TDS after your membrand (3 TDS I believe?) and that rules out essentially any other problems.

So the mixing station is in the basement, Where virtually no one is and gets fresh air from outside because of the Hvac system. Now im no Hvac expert but I don't know where the return air goes to. The return air is brought down stairs but I don't know if its exhausted out of the house or not?
I wonder if CO2 is the issue?
Seems like more questions then answers right now.

 

[Rscott]

@Rscott I don't think that there was ever an answer to the question, "What is the TDS reading of the water entering your RO system?"

Though you have a city water report, unless that water was taken from your tap, you don't know what the water picked up along the way from the tower to your faucet.

I would replace your resin, and see if that fixes the problem.

Im sure a resin change would fix the issue. However, the question is not what the fix is, but why the resin was destroyed after 150 gallons.

I got a closer look at the resin today, I should of taken a picture. Not sure why I didn't.

The top and bottom of the resin container is brown with the middle still being a dark color. Im assuming that is blue.

No clue what that really tells us.

Appreciate everyone's thoughts. I will just keep screwing with it I guess but there is no way I should be doing a resin change every month. My DT is not that big and the monthly expense right now is outrageous.

I knew this was going to be spendy but I bet im spending $200 a month right now to run the tank.
My apex is telling me im consuming $50 a month of electricity alone.
The water bill has doubled (we do have expensive water here)

And most of all, im doing an entire bucket of salt a month right now because water changes are the only way to keep my nitrates under control.

A while back I did a thread on cost to maintain the tank per month. We did some calcs and assumed about $50 a month. Im no where near that. Now if we through in monthly resin on top of it????
Come on, there has to be something going on. A red sea reefer 450 with not a single coral in it and no dosing should not cost $200 a month to run. I don't even have 3 lights on it yet, only 2 kessil A360x's

Appreciate all the answers.
I need to figure out how to make a simple fuge to help with nutrient removal. The salt bill is insane right now.

 

[dbjonesjr]

So the mixing station is in the basement, Where virtually no one is and gets fresh air from outside because of the Hvac system. Now im no Hvac expert but I don't know where the return air goes to. The return air is brought down stairs but I don't know if its exhausted out of the house or not?
I wonder if CO2 is the issue?
Seems like more questions then answers right now.

There is a possibility there is dissolved CO2 in your source water, not the air in your house. The answer to your TDS issue is resin replacement. I will say that the way you claim it has changed colors is a bit odd, and may mean that the pre-packed resin was not mixed correctly and the mixed bed did not operate efficiently. Was the resin pre-packed when you received the system? When I get home, I will take a photo of how my resin has depleted. If you are looking for a cheap solution to nutrient control then I would consider carbon dosing, or switch to a cheaper salt.

 

[Rscott]

There is a possibility there is dissolved CO2 in your source water, not the air in your house. The answer to your TDS issue is resin replacement. I will say that the way you claim it has changed colors is a bit odd, and may mean that the pre-packed resin was not mixed correctly and the mixed bed did not operate efficiently. Was the resin pre-packed when you received the system? When I get home, I will take a photo of how my resin has depleted. If you are looking for a cheap solution to nutrient control then I would consider carbon dosing, or switch to a cheaper salt.

Thanks, I will also post a picture back this afternoon. I have already ordered new resin.
Like I mentioned above. The resin seems to be brown top and bottom with a blue middle.
It came pre installed in the system when I took it out of the box from BRS.

 

[Opus]

With a 3tds out of the membrane, you should be able to get around 1,400 gallons of 0 tds water from the di cartridge. This leads me to believe either you got a bad batch of DI resin, it isn't packed correctly or you have CO2 in your water.

Does your town's water report state where they get their water? I was surprised to find out that my small town uses lake water but the next town over that is twice our size uses well water.

 

[Opus]

Thanks, I will also post a picture back this afternoon. I have already ordered new resin.
Like I mentioned above. The resin seems to be brown top and bottom with a blue middle.
It came pre installed in the system when I took it out of the box from BRS.

I wonder if BRS installed the DI catridge upside down? I had my resin start giving a 2 or 3 tds reading really quick once and after taking it apart I realized I installed the DI cartridge upside down.

 

[rcpalmer1]

Dude you have why more problems than DI resin. How long has the tank been setup and how many fish do you have? I would expect a tank that size to use a bucket of salt every 3-4 months. First I would try to fix your filtration problem. Brs make the best systems for reefing. Your resin is bad. As someone else said it may have packed funny but it is irrelevant. It needs to be replaced. If it depletes quick again something is wrong or you may need to add two more canisters and switch to the pro resin. It may have just been something with it being new or being installed upside down and you never have another problem with it. I get it. The cost add up quick. If you listen to Ryan's videos he is like it is only $5 more dollars a month for X. It is a no brainer but all those $5 add up.

So you are doing over 100% water change a month. If you are having nitrate problems they are being add. You just have to figure out where they are coming from. My wife used to feed the fish saying they looked hugary. Some food have more by products than other. I would look at anything that is put in the tank. I would pick one food and feed it sparingly. Then I would look at your export method. I good protein skimmer and a refugium can take care of a lot. I would not add any reef food or aminos until I get levels under control then add the one at a time to make sure you are not unknowingly put nitrates in to the tank

 

[fuelman]

you should also have a cut out line after the ro but before the di, to drain the ro unit water for a few minutes after it has not been in use. Ryan from brs did a video on it a while back saying after your ro unit rests for a while the membrane will equalize & the initial tds coming out of the ro unit might be 100 or more, this will drop off fast as the ro unit starts working at full efficiency, but will rapidly deplete your di resin. if your using small batches of water at a time, not flushing the ro before letting run into the di unit, & checking the tds meter after it's been running for a few minutes that might be why your using it up so fast. i went from changing resin once a month to once every five months after doing what Ryan had recommended, it works.

 

[Midrats]

CO2 is my problem here. I get around 100 gallons out of a DI cartridge. I can't be bothered to make a degassing rig. 2 TDS RO water has been working fine for me for years.

 

[Rscott]

Pics of my resin as described middle is blue brown on top and bottom

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I agree with @rcpalmer1, you shouldn't need to change that much water to keep up with nutrient control. You have very little bio load for that tank. The only way the nitrates are getting in there in that high of a concentration is if you are adding them either through feeding, water, or some other way.

Have you tested nitrites lately? Nitrite can cause a false high nitrate reading.

Are you still dosing NoPoX? Have you tested PO4?

Something isn't right if you are having to do that many water changes with so little livestock.

 

[Rscott]

I agree with @rcpalmer1, you shouldn't need to change that much water to keep up with nutrient control. You have very little bio load for that tank. The only way the nitrates are getting in there in that high of a concentration is if you are adding them either through feeding, water, or some other way.

Have you tested nitrites lately? Nitrite can cause a false high nitrate reading.

Are you still dosing NoPoX? Have you tested PO4?

Something isn't right if you are having to do that many water changes with so little livestock.

Thanks for the thoughts

Not dosing nopox , only did that as instructed with the cycle kit

Have not tested po4 recently but I can go do it
I have the Hannah checker

I just tested nitrite a minute ago, perfectly clear and dead zero

Nitrates tested also
Should up around maybe 5- ish

After a 30% water change last weekend

Ammonia is showing dead zero, So is nitrites
Tank is nice and clear

4 fish in now

My 2 springer damsels who turned out to be awesome. All they do is play all day and are super social and 2 awesome divinci clowns who insist on following me around as best they can!

I have a hand full of hermits

2 nasarious snails

And 1 fire shrimp

All doing very well and super happy as far as I can tell.

Feeding habits have been a tiny tiny pinch of flake food once a day.

Feeding the shrimp some frozen worms with tweezers once a day. More like just one tiny worm which he devours

Is that to much?

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Thanks for the thoughts

Not dosing nopox , only did that as instructed with the cycle kit

Have not tested po4 recently but I can go do it
I have the Hannah checker

I just tested nitrite a minute ago, perfectly clear and dead zero

Nitrates tested also
Should up around maybe 5- ish

After a 30% water change last weekend

Ammonia is showing dead zero, So is nitrites
Tank is nice and clear

4 fish in now

My 2 springer damsels who turned out to be awesome. All they do is play all day and are super social and 2 awesome divinci clowns who insist on following me around as best they can!

I have a hand full of hermits

2 nasarious snails

And 1 fire shrimp

All doing very well and super happy as far as I can tell.

Feeding habits have been a tiny tiny pinch of flake food once a day.

Feeding the shrimp some frozen worms with tweezers once a day. More like just one tiny worm which he devours

Is that to much?

Sounds like the feeding is fine. 5 ppm for nitrate is great. PO4 should be less than .1 but at least .03 or higher.

How high do the nitrates get causing you to do large water changes. I only change 10% a week.