ACCIDENTAL DOSE!! Possibly toxic mix!

[citymouse]

I would try feeding General Cure + Focus, for at least 10-14 days. Can go as long as three weeks if needed. Tangs are poop machines, if you haven’t seen them poop than there is definitely something going on there...

I usually do 2 scoops GC + 1 scoop focus per 1 tablespoon frozen food (frozen mysis is easier to medicate than nori) and feed at least twice a day. Just small amounts at a time, only as much as they can eat so you don’t muck up your QT.

I don't have GC or Focus on hand. I've had them for over 5 months, other than the Flukes when I first got them, they were doing fine and I was about to move them to the big tank, but then this happened. I never noticed any pooping, I'm not watching them 24/7 but I do see them a ton since they're in this room where I am most of the time, I'm watching them destroy the seaweed right now
I thought maybe I was under feeding them and didn't realize it, I tried giving them NLS before but they weren't interested, seaweed is all they want! I started making sure they always had some available.

I ever see any of my fish poop actually, maybe they're just very private and poop when I'm not around. lol

 

[ngoodermuth]

It's 20g. I don't have the Hanna testers, I have the Seachem copper test. So maybe stick to 10 a day for up to 8 days? I just thought the sooner they get to the right level the better. I hope the Seachem test is accurate, I don't understand how that powder adds anything to the test..it's weird.

I think the instructions are 20 drops per 10 gallons, and then another dose of the same. But, I usually do 10-15 the first day, and then intervals of 5 drops from there on testing at least once per day. So maybe I’ll put 5 drops in the morning, then test that evening and maybe add 5 more,etc. But, more often than not I’m dealing with wrasses so I’m a bit more cautious.

It’s easy to overshoot and anything over .6 starts to get dangerous for your fish....

 

[lapin]

Never thought to speed heat that way! With Summer coming, I'll have the opposite problem, I've actually had to cool water down before! I'm in TX, the RODI water is in the garage, it's not as hot in there as it is outside, but still, the water is over 80 degrees all summer.

I have to place water bottles in the freezer in case of too much Tejas heat.

I've never fed live food before..kind of grosses me out;Yuck Where do you keep this, in your fridge? I have frozen food but they show little interest in anything other than the seaweed.

I actually have black worms in a 10 gallon tank in my garage. Air stone and sponge filter. I feed them and buy 1lb at a time. That qty last about 2 months. It will soon be to hot for them. You can keep them in the fridge. You will have to change that water every day. Kinda of a pain. I also raise white worms in plastic containers (food leftover size) Much easier. I feed them cat food and nutritional yeast. I use potting soil. Those containers are under my tank on the floor. They dont need light. Lastly, I hatch baby brine shrimp. This plus frozen, a live clam once in a while and some live macro algae (tang heaven) keeps everyone happy.

I ever see any of my fish poop actually, maybe they're just very private and poop when I'm not around. lol

I only see one of my fish poo. The sand sifter. It might worms since it has long stringy poo. All attempts to cure it, never worked. So maybe it just has that type of digestive system. It is fat and happy and I have had it around a year now.

 

[citymouse]

I think the instructions are 20 drops per 10 gallons, and then another dose of the same. But, I usually do 10-15 the first day, and then intervals of 5 drops from there on testing at least once per day. So maybe I’ll put 5 drops in the morning, then test that evening and maybe add 5 more,etc.

It’s easy to overshoot and anything over .6 starts to get dangerous for your fish....

The instructions on the bottle are 20 drops per 10.5 gallons, wait 48 hrs and repeat. So I was told to ignore that and do the 10 a day split into 2x per day, for up to 8 day to reach therapeutic levels. I'm just concerned this isn't fast enough, but I can stick to the 10 day if that's safer too. So tomorrow I could do 5 in the am and 5 in the pm then test?

I've been looking at Hanna testers online, driving me crazy that they cost $50 and then you have to buy the solution, so it's more like $60 that I don't have right now. Plus shipping and getting it here at a reasonable time.

 

[citymouse]

I have to place water bottles in the freezer in case of too much Tejas heat.


I actually have black worms in a 10 gallon tank in my garage. Air stone and sponge filter. I feed them and buy 1lb at a time. That qty last about 2 months. It will soon be to hot for them. You can keep them in the fridge. You will have to change that water every day. Kinda of a pain. I also raise white worms in plastic containers (food leftover size) Much easier. I feed them cat food and nutritional yeast. I use potting soil. Those containers are under my tank on the floor. They dont need light. Lastly, I hatch baby brine shrimp. This plus frozen, a live clam once in a while and some live macro algae (tang heaven) keeps everyone happy.

Ok, this might be awesome for the fish, but I could never do this! lol I hate worms!
my fish will have to learn to love frozen food as an alternative It's just so messy and I don't want to spike the nitrates again, I keep having issues with this, i'm thinking it's the HOB filter, I need something better in my QT, which I'm looking into since I'm upgrading to a 40 breeder.

 

[lapin]

Ok prob not a snake person either *-}
Just one more plug for live food. It wont cause the dreaded nitrate spike unless you really over do it
Ok im done with the promo

 

[ngoodermuth]

The instructions on the bottle are 20 drops per 10.5 gallons, wait 48 hrs and repeat. So I was told to ignore that and do the 10 a day split into 2x per day, for up to 8 day to reach therapeutic levels. I'm just concerned this isn't fast enough, but I can stick to the 10 day if that's safer too. So tomorrow I could do 5 in the am and 5 in the pm then test?

I've been looking at Hanna testers online, driving me crazy that they cost $50 and then you have to buy the solution, so it's more like $60 that I don't have right now. Plus shipping and getting it here at a reasonable time.

Yea, that’s what I would do.

And fwiw, I still had a few unopened copper test kits laying around so I’m still color matching myself lol the reference sample is really helpful when you feel like you are getting to therapeutic, to double check.

Waste not, want not

 

[citymouse]

Ok prob not a snake person either *-}
Just one more plug for live food. It wont cause the dreaded nitrate spike unless you really over do it
Ok im done with the promo

Not at all! I do not like snakes! I walk dogs and I'm worried about running into a rattle or coral snake around here! ugh

I wish it didn't gross me out like it does. It's like feeding dogs raw, i can't do it, he gets the best food I can buy, but raw....that's more than I can handle. He's already eating better than me. lol

 

[ngoodermuth]

I sometimes feed live foods too, especially when trying to get finicky eaters to adjust to aquarium life. Fresh clams, baby brine, fresh ROE, and live worms are some of my go-tos when a fish won’t eat.

I’ve veered away from live blackworms from my LFS however unless absolutely necessary. I don’t have anything beyond personal observations...but for a while my fish were getting these weird hazy-white looking patches on them and at first I thought maybe it was something bacterial... but eventually realized it was correlating directly to when I was feeding the blackworms.

I would still feed them, just need to find a better source...

And I can’t believe neither of your fish poop in front of you! Mine are like coral crop-dusters [emoji23]

 

[w2inc]

I am on board with the others. Fatten them up with protein. Frozen Mysis and pellets are a great bang for your buck. My tangs love mysis. They really love live worms, but nutrition can be pretty low based on the condition of the worms.

I am also a big fan of general cure.

I am not a fan of copper. Dr. Fishman of Fishman Chemical told me on that on the aquaculture side of things Ich crypto, had developed an immunity to copper and they stopped using it years ago. Chloroquine Phosphate or Quinine were recommended. It was hard to find. Got some on eBay and later just bought it from Fishman. (they sell it by the pound.) I think they are called Fishmeds online now.

Bacteria gets overlooked regularly. High temp is directly related accelerated growth rates in many pathogenic bacteria. High temp also causes less o2 in the water. I cool things down a little in my QT. Whatever you choose, do it slowly as to not stress your fish out anymore. Be sure they have places to hide and it is not environmental issues that are causing them to look under the weather.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I am on board with the others. Fatten them up with protein. Frozen Mysis and pellets are a great bang for your buck. My tangs love mysis. They really love live worms, but nutrition can be pretty low based on the condition of the worms.

I am also a big fan of general cure.

I am not a fan of copper. Dr. Fishman of Fishman Chemical told me on that on the aquaculture side of things Ich crypto, had developed an immunity to copper and they stopped using it years ago. Chloroquine Phosphate or Quinine were recommended. It was hard to find. Got some on eBay and later just bought it from Fishman. (they sell it by the pound.) I think they are called Fishmeds online now.

Bacteria gets overlooked regularly. High temp is directly related accelerated growth rates in many pathogenic bacteria. High temp also causes less o2 in the water. I cool things down a little in my QT. Whatever you choose, do it slowly as to not stress your fish out anymore. Be sure they have places to hide and it is not environmental issues that are causing them to look under the weather.

The only problem with Chloroquine and Quinine (besides the latter being completely unavailable any longer, used to be sold by NFP years ago under the label crypto-pro but was replaced when CP became the “safer” alternative) is that from what we’ve found, certain fish don’t tolerate it well. Most notably- anthias, flasher wrasses, and hippo tangs.

For many of the fish that DO tolerate it, appetite suppression can be an issue. Not saying it’s not useful, I’ve used it myself and the fact that it treats ich, velvet, brook AND uronema is awesome. But, besides availability there are some drawbacks.

I do agree that bacteria can be more difficult than parasites to manage and is often an afterthought... but is definitely just as, if not more dangerous if you miss the early symptoms. Especially when treating with copper, which is an immunosuppressant.

 

[w2inc]

I accidentally reposted the one above. I am not sure if it is gone. Thanks for sharing your experience and for the info on the CP. I knew there could be issues with sharks and rays but was unaware of the others.

 

[citymouse]

I am on board with the others. Fatten them up with protein. Frozen Mysis and pellets are a great bang for your buck. My tangs love mysis. They really love live worms, but nutrition can be pretty low based on the condition of the worms.

I am also a big fan of general cure.

I am not a fan of copper. Dr. Fishman of Fishman Chemical told me on that on the aquaculture side of things Ich crypto, had developed an immunity to copper and they stopped using it years ago. Chloroquine Phosphate or Quinine were recommended. It was hard to find. Got some on eBay and later just bought it from Fishman. (they sell it by the pound.) I think they are called Fishmeds online now.

Bacteria gets overlooked regularly. High temp is directly related accelerated growth rates in many pathogenic bacteria. High temp also causes less o2 in the water. I cool things down a little in my QT. Whatever you choose, do it slowly as to not stress your fish out anymore. Be sure they have places to hide and it is not environmental issues that are causing them to look under the weather.

I gave them some frozen food, it has mysis and brine shrimp, they ate it like crazy! So from now on, they'll get this daily along with their seaweed. I split one square between the 3 tank and it was still too much. Not sure how my fire shrimp felt about eating shrimp...lol

My tank temp is around 78. There is a plant and 2 PVC pipes, the little one goes inside the pipes and the big one hides behind the plant.
I'm going to continue with th Cupramine dosing 5 drops twice a day until I reach therapeutic levels. I'm just not sure how long to stay at that level an does it change, become lower?
I don't know what to do once we get there! So any more info you guys can share is greatly appreciated! You've all been super helpful already!

 

[ngoodermuth]

Once you get copper to therapeutic, you just keep it there for 30 days (or 14 if you have a second QT available to transfer them) You do want to monitor the copper level still- I try to check at least ever day or two just to make sure it't still where it is supposed to be. If it drops below .4, you'll need to start your 30 day clock over again... so the more often you test, the less likely it might dip below therapeutic without your knowledge. It can drop a bit due to absorption, but it should hopefully be minimal as long as there is no sand/rock/porous surfaces, etc.

After 30 days, remove with cuprisorb/carbon and water changes, and observe for at least another 2 weeks to make sure they remain without symptoms.

 

[citymouse]

Once you get copper to therapeutic, you just keep it there for 30 days (or 14 if you have a second QT available to transfer them) You do want to monitor the copper level still- I try to check at least ever day or two just to make sure it't still where it is supposed to be. If it drops below .4, you'll need to start your 30 day clock over again... so the more often you test, the less likely it might dip below therapeutic without your knowledge. It can drop a bit due to absorption, but it should hopefully be minimal as long as there is no sand/rock/porous surfaces, etc.

After 30 days, remove with cuprisorb/carbon and water changes, and observe for at least another 2 weeks to make sure they remain without symptoms.

Ok, I thought therapeutic level was .5, is it higher? and if it does drop, what do I do, add more cupramine? and if so, how do I know how much?
I feel like a newbie over here, lol! I've had a saltwater tank for over 9 years and I've never had fish disease, parasites etc. the biggest issue I dealt with was algae...

 

[ngoodermuth]

Ok, I thought therapeutic level was .5, is it higher? and if it does drop, what do I do, add more cupramine? and if so, how do I know how much?
I feel like a newbie over here, lol! I've had a saltwater tank for over 9 years and I've never had fish disease, parasites etc. the biggest issue I dealt with was algae...

.5 is right, you don’t want it going above .6 or below .4...

If it’s low, I usually add 5ish drops at a time (depending on QT size) and retest. If it’s high, change out a gallon or two and retest. Unfortunately, each tank’s absorption rate will be a little different so it might take a little trial and error as you go... just keep the test kit handy and you’ll be fine!

 

[citymouse]

.5 is right, you don’t want it going above .6 or below .4...

If it’s low, I usually add 5ish drops at a time (depending on QT size) and retest. If it’s high, change out a gallon or two and retest. Unfortunately, each tank’s absorption rate will be a little different so it might take a little trial and error as you go... just keep the test kit handy and you’ll be fine!

I may have to break down and buy a Hanna tester to make it easier!
Thank you again!