Acclimation plan, LiveAquaria order

Tikosyn · Sep 7, 2018

Ok, So I have always ordered my fish from Divers Den and they keep their systems at 1.025 salinity, which is where I keep my tank at so acclimation was never a big issue. I have just placed my first order with liveaquaria who, according to what I've read, runs their systems around 1.018. My plan was to set up a 10g holding tank at 1.018 salinity and put the fish (3 medium size pyramid butterflys) in there after temp acclimation and get them settled.

After which point set up some buckets and perform Blue Line Safety Stop dips of formalin/methylene blue at 1.018 salinity with a 3rd bucket at 1.018 salinity they can go in after dips are complete to which I would drip acclimate for around 1 hour to my display's salinity of 1.025. (I don't do a full QT, please don't get out the pitchforks.) Besides the obvious risk I am taking not performing a full QT, is there anything wrong with this plan? Is 1 hour enough time to go from 1.018 to 1.025? Thanks for your help!

Reeferdood · Sep 7, 2018

@Humblefish would be the one to ask.

nereefpat · Sep 7, 2018

I would take much longer than 1hr to acclimate from 1.018 to 1.025. A few hours would be better.

With an air stone and a heater, your 10 gallon holding tank can serve as a qt for at least 72hrs.

Tikosyn · Sep 7, 2018

So 3 butterfly angels would be ok in a 10 gal QT for a couple days? I would rather slowly adjust the salinity up over the course of a few days time than do this rapid acclimation I was just worried about lack of space

Tikosyn · Sep 7, 2018

Sorry, pyramid butterflys

Halal Hotdog · Sep 7, 2018

I would imagine as long as it is for a short period, 10 gallons might be okay, but definitely not great. If it was just one I would say you are probably fine, but 3 is where I am concerned. A 20 gallon long from petco is usually my go to for housing fish before my display.

Sierra_Bravo · Sep 7, 2018

I just received an order from their California facility. I called beforehand, they said the salinity would be at 1.021. The actual salinity in the bag was 1.020 and pH of 8.3.

ca1ore · Sep 7, 2018

Salinity from LA will vary. It is usually 1.018, but can be as high as 1.020 or as low as 1.015.

ca1ore · Sep 7, 2018

Tikosyn said:
So 3 butterfly angels would be ok in a 10 gal QT for a couple days? I would rather slowly adjust the salinity up over the course of a few days time than do this rapid acclimation I was just worried about lack of space

I have ordered pyramids a few time from LA. Mediums are usually 3". If that remains the case, a 10 will be fine for a few days. Keep an eye out for mouth damage with these fish.

nereefpat · Sep 7, 2018

Tikosyn said:
So 3 butterfly angels would be ok in a 10 gal QT for a couple days? I would rather slowly adjust the salinity up over the course of a few days time than do this rapid acclimation I was just worried about lack of space

Sure. Folks do tank transfer method in 10 gallon tanks. Just watch ammonia and add prime or do water changes, if needed, and it probably isn't.

HairyGary · Sep 7, 2018

72 hours will be fine in 10 gallon unless you really overfeed them. Also, I would take a few hours with airstone and heater as well to acclimate to your DT salinity.

Humblefish · Sep 7, 2018

nereefpat said:
I would take much longer than 1hr to acclimate from 1.018 to 1.025. A few hours would be better.

I would take a few days. Fish handle going down in salinity much better than going up.

And being these are regular LA fish (i.e. Quality Marine), I strongly advise you QT them: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-to-quarantine.232/

Tikosyn · Sep 7, 2018

Ok ok, I went to petsmart and got a 20 gallon long. I have a canister filter and some seeded filter sponges in my sump and some spare heaters. I'll QT them. This will be my first real QT with meds though, I will let them adjust to the tank for 1 day then maybe start prazipro sunday?

Tikosyn · Sep 7, 2018

Although I haven't medicated my other fish as of yet so if something is in my display already I don't see the point in being so cautious now

Humblefish · Sep 7, 2018

Tikosyn said:
Ok ok, I went to petsmart and got a 20 gallon long. I have a canister filter and some seeded filter sponges in my sump and some spare heaters. I'll QT them. This will be my first real QT with meds though, I will let them adjust to the tank for 1 day then maybe start prazipro sunday?

I would ensure they are eating first before dosing any meds.

Tikosyn said:
Although I haven't medicated my other fish as of yet so if something is in my display already I don't see the point in being so cautious now

The main thing you don't want to get in your DT is this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Tikosyn · Sep 7, 2018

Humblefish said:
I would ensure they are eating first before dosing any meds.

The main thing you don't want to get in your DT is this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Ok, Thanks Humblefish. I don't want to dose copper unless they show signs/symptoms of ich or velvet. Based on this write up I should see some symptoms of this within a 15 day period?

Humblefish · Sep 7, 2018

Tikosyn said:
Ok, Thanks Humblefish. I don't want to dose copper unless they show signs/symptoms of ich or velvet. Based on this write up I should see some symptoms of this within a 15 day period?

Yes, but also observe for behavioral symptoms just in case white dots do not show up:

Reduced or complete loss of appetite.
Heavy breathing, rubbing, flashing, head twitching, erratic swimming behavior (unfortunately velvet shares all these same symptoms with ich & gill flukes.)
Swimming into the flow of a powerhead (unique to velvet).
Acting reclusive (velvet causes fish to be sensitive to light).

Butterflyfish can also be prone to bacterial infections and uronema (both will present themselves as red sores on the fish), so keep an eye out for that as well. Formalin will provide temporary relief for uronema, but Kanaplex + Metroplex + Furan-2 is needed for complete eradication (of both). Or NFG is great for treating butterflies w/infections: http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

pdxmonkeyboy · Sep 7, 2018

why is copper treated like this horrible poison that will ultimately end your fishes life??

I have always dosed copper and besides the time I added prime on accident... oops... I have never lost a fish to copper?

At any rate, congrats on deciding to QT your fish!! It is seriously just foolish to not QT these days. A guy in my club took no QT as a point of pride. He was always chiming in about he never QTs. I saw him at the meeting last month. I asked him, you haven't been on the forum much.. and he said.. my tank crashed, think it was velvet.. he lost all but one fish.

take it slow with increasing salt... It takes a fair bit of energy for fish to stop loosing water from their bodies to the environment. When that need is reduced...from lower salinity, it takes awhile to adjust back to a saltier environment. you are essentially dehydrating your fish.

Ever wonder why spawning salmon get all black and mushy when the return from the ocean? some is hormonal but alot of it is because they are water logged because they can't adjust back to the salinity fresh water environment and expel all that extra water. See, that grad level ichtheology class FINALLY came in handy

Tikosyn · Sep 8, 2018

Update: received the fish, 1 was DOA, the other two went straight into QT which was at 1.018, which is the same as the water they came in, I tested it. One of the butterflys looks fine while the other seems to be swimming frantically and somewhat upside down. I don’t have high hopes he will survive long. So 33.3% survival rate on my first order from liveaquaria proper....I may have to stick to divers den...