Achilles Tang 101

[R6REEFER]

Fellow reefers,

After 9 months of research and planning, I finally pulled the trigger yesterday. As they say, patience is a virtue. That is my cardinal rule when it comes to reef keeping. I've came across several Achilles tangs over the last 9 months, all of which were sub par. They were either exhibiting odd behavior, discolored, or malnourished (not eating). Yesterday I went to a good friend of mine's shop and low and behold... What does he have? A 6" fat, healthy, Achilles that was full of vibrant color in all the right places. I immediately asked him how long he had it and if it was eating (1 month). I watched him feed a bit of frozen, he took it. We then fed him some Algaemax pellets and he devoured them! Without hesitance I told him to bag him up. I had finally found the ideal specimen I've been on the hunt for. I do not trust ordering such an expensive fish online, I had to see it eat.

He's now been in my 160g SPS reef for 24 hours. He was extremely skittish at first even though he only has one tank mate, an orchid dottyback. I stayed up until 5am just sitting in front of the tank observing the fish and sort of "bonding" with him. It worked because now he won't come out unless I sit down at the tank. With all this being said I'd like to hear everyone's personal experiences, tragedies, mistakes, tips, whatever input you have. DO NOT TELL ME MY TANK IS TOO SMALL, I'm not here to argue and if you mention it you will be ignored. I have future plans which I will not get into detail about on this thread. Stay focused on the topic at hand please!

Tank conditions:

Temp - 78.5
Sal - 1.026
Ph - 8.2
Alk - 10.6
Mag - 1320
Cal - 420
No3 - 3 ppm
Po4 - 0.04 ppm

Roughly 130 lbs of live rock with 120 lbs Ocean Direct sand (DSB). I customized my rock work with acrylic rods to form 3 large structures and put the rest in the fuge. He has the entire 6 foot tank to himself which I had planned. An Ecotech Vectra and 2 MP40 QD's provide the flow. 2 AI Hydra's and one AI Hydra Fiftytwo above the center column provide lighting. The Vortech's are on a custom schedule that took me months to dial in perfect for my tank inhabitants. There is a TON of flow in the tank beings as I have alot of SPS. I have decreased the percentages of the pumps for an acclimation period for him. I also cut all light spectrums by 30% to acclimate over a 2 week period. I believe these steps are crucial to minimize stress. Examine all conditions of the LFS and tank the specimen was in as well as find out how long it's been in the tank and what the water parameters are. Try to replicate the conditions if the fish has been in the tank for more than 2 weeks. I will also be adding a UV sterilizer next week.

Food:

I make my own food which consists of squid and shrimp straight off my step fathers commercial fishing boat. I mix with a decent amount of kelp and seaweed. I purchased some New Life Spectrum Algaemax pellets and some garlic seaweed sheets when I picked him up yesterday. Last night I ordered both the NLS Hex-Guard and NLS Ich-Guard. I also ordered some Seachem Paraguard to have on hand in case of emergency. If you have any other recommendations of medications I should keep on hand or dose regularly please let me know.

He's eating great and seems to be swimming a fair amount now but still skittish when someone else approaches the tank or if I lift the hood.

 

[Alanc425]

My tip would be to quarantine him but it seems like it is too late for that.

 

[Diesel]

Great choice on a Tang.
Who and what are his tank mates?
And 1+ on the QT

 

[R6REEFER]

Quarentine was not an option as I do not have a seperate tank that's currently set up. Usually if I have to "quarentine" a fish for various reasons unrelated to disease, I put them in my sump. I wasn't too worried about it, the owner is a good friend of mine and he quarentined the fish for 2 weeks. I went back and checked out his quarentine tank as well. He's the only guy in SA I trust with fish.

I have a small clean up crew of various nass. snails, hermits, and a sand sifter. As far as fish the only other inhabitants are the orchid dottyback and a tiny maroon clown. I had an engineering goby but he recently thought it was a good idea to play in the MP40...

 

[Diesel]

I hear ya!
Looking at your FTS is see a Angel on the right side, is that correct?
Hope this FTS was made at least a year ago as it looks if it was done yesterday.
Can we see a FTS from how your tank looks today?
Do I spot a few SPS frags on the sand bottom too?

 

[4FordFamily]

My tip would be to quarantine him but it seems like it is too late for that.

X3. The rest of this is ancillary, I hope I'm wrong but time will illustrate the point.

This is not a fish that can handle even minor ich strains. It will slowly succomb over a period of 30-365 days and the parasite will take hold slowly, and a big fat stomach will help but eventually the parasites will suck all nourishment from this fish until the gills are damaged or it cannot take in enough calories to feed itself and the parasites and it will quit eating or waste away slowly even as it eats.

Plenty of tangs and fish can adapt to ich. This is NOT one of them.

I will also add that probably 95% of tanks that have inhabitants that are not quarantined have ich. Nearly 100% of tangs will come with ich no LFS is going to do a proper job of proper preventative measures and as far as I know there aren't any that are even close or attempting to be. Because of sheer volume, cost, and the impact on economies of scale for them it's just not feasible.

I wish you the best but plan on plan B for this guy. I've killed dozens of them trying what you are, seen people kill dozens more trying. PBT as well although I do know of one or two successes in "ich management" tanks, they are almost as difficult. The story has never worked out for any Achilles in this situation that I have seen or heard, and that includes online where people can say whatever they want.

I had one last 12 months with ich until the above happened to it. The others lasted a month to three months before succombing.

 

[R6REEFER]

Yes I used to have an Emperor and a coral beauty but they were nippers so off they went. That was taken 8 months ago. In that pic I believe there were a few sticks but nothing compared to what I have now. I'll take yall a current pic when I get home this evening. That was just to show the 3 structures.

 

[R6REEFER]

X3. The rest of this is ancillary, I hope I'm wrong but time will illustrate the point.

This is not a fish that can handle even minor ich strains. It will slowly succomb over a period of 30-365 days and the parasite will take hold slowly, and a big fat stomach will help but eventually the parasites will suck all nourishment from this fish until the gills are damaged or it cannot take in enough calories to feed itself and the parasites and it will quit eating or waste away slowly even as it eats.

Plenty of tangs and fish can adapt to ich. This is NOT one of them.

That's why I'm talking preventative measures. The tank will be treated regularly and that will be the only other fish in the tank aside from the two other small fish. All corals and other miscellaneous inverts get dipped twice before they go into sump.

If it happens, it happens. At least I could say I tried and I know in my heart I tried as hard as I could. Who knows, maybe you are wrong. Maybe I'll have this fish for 5+ years. No offense to you, I like to look at the glass half full!

 

[Diesel]

Yes I used to have an Emperor and a coral beauty but they were nippers so off they went. In that pic I believe there were a few sticks but nothing compared to what I have now. I'll take yall a current pic when I get home this evening. That was just to show the 3 steuctures.

Great looking forward to that.
Must be a awesome tank by now, your rock work looks awesome.
Was Southern Salt Aquatics the installer of this beauty?

 

[4FordFamily]

That's why I'm talking preventative measures. The tank will be treated regularly and that will be the only other fish in the tank aside from the two other small fish. All corals and other miscellaneous inverts get dipped twice before they go into sump.

If it happens, it happens. At least I could say I tried and I know in my heart I tried as hard as I could. Who knows, maybe you are wrong. Maybe I'll have this fish for 5+ years. No offense to you, I like to look at the glass half full!

This thread may help you.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...ears-of-experience-and-ich-management.206347/

I don't usually take gambles like that, I had the same mentality at one point and I regret it very much..

How are you planning on treating the tank? With what?

 

[R6REEFER]

Great looking forward to that.
Must be a awesome tank by now, your rock work looks awesome.
Was Southern Salt Aquatics the installer of this beauty?

Thank you for the compliments! I am Southern Salt Aquatics brotha I'm the founder. I built that tank from scratch, everything except for the glass. Even the sump is custom built.

 

[R6REEFER]

As soon as it comes in the mail, I'll be running a two week cycle of dosing Seachem Paraguard. I also ordered Seachem Cupramine for emergency purposes. The food pellets I feed are medicated as well. Paraguard - Internals, Cupramine - Externals, Rx foods - Immune system.

Guys, I understand the whole "oh it's an Achilles, it's gonna die", please refrain from trying to wedge that into my post. I understand the odds stacked against me. Let's focus on helpful information please. I don't need discouragement and negativity. I'm well aware and Pepa red of what can happen in that aspect. Thank you for the article though 4Ford!

 

[Diesel]

What we trying to accomplish here is that other ppl reading this too and we like to make them understand that doing it your way is walking a fine line.
We not saying at all that what you doing is wrong as many, many hobbyist still don't have a QT system.
As you mentioned that you can put your fish in the sump which has a direct flow contact whit your tank it really doesn't do much as it has no meaning.
I'm sure you know what you doing and wish you all the luck.
Still looking forward on your FTS this afternoon.

 

[R6REEFER]

What we trying to accomplish here is that other ppl reading this too and we like to make them understand that doing it your way is walking a fine line.
We not saying at all that what you doing is wrong as many, many hobbyist still don't have a QT system.
As you mentioned that you can put your fish in the sump which has a direct flow contact whit your tank it really doesn't do much as it has no meaning.
I'm sure you know what you doing and wish you all the luck.
Still looking forward on your FTS this afternoon.

Oh yeah, Diesel I wasn't directing that towards you brotha! I actually have a quarentine tank as well as several other tanks that need to be set up but I'm completely out of room in this house. Quarentine tanks are completely necessary and I wish I had one it's just not feasible at the time.

I'm not trying to be rude guys, I'd just like to go ahead and shift gears on the subject (personal experiences, do's & don't's, tips, care advice). I've read dang near every article I could find online so I'd really like to hear some personal successful experiences and maybe some tips I can't find online. Thanks guys!

 

[carolinareefguy]

Good luck with the process. If the fish is eating, it will be fine. I have been in the hobby 10 years and never once QT a fish. The tangs gets spots and then they go away. A eating fish will beat ich every time. Placing a beautiful achilles in some tiny QT tank with pvc could cause unnecessary stress, causing it to stop eating and could lead to death. Tang police say 6 to 8 feet for space for large tangs, yet QT police say QT in a tiny glass box for months with minimal filtration. I say keep it simple, place it in a large tank full of live rock, minimize stress and feed often, and it will be fine.

Great work being patient, finding a healthy speciman and good luck on this exciting journey.

 

[FarmerTy]

I had the same sentiment as carolinareefguy and been keeping tanks for 13 years. All my tangs got over ich and never had one die from it. I just fed them well and they all recovered. That is until I tried to keep an achilles and a powder blue. Those rules don't apply with those two.

For advice, I'd say just monitor it and if it starts to get spots at all, be prepared to catch it out and treat it and allow the DT to go fallow for 76 days to rid the tank of ich.

That's not the fun part yet, afterwards, you'll need to QT everything before going into the tank just to make sure you don't reintroduce ich into the system. We're talking QT fish, corals, and CUC... everything.

I've used TTM to rid mine of ich twice now with no issues. It's pretty harmless to them. I'm currently running my tank fallow as I accidentally screwed up on my first run of going fallow by missing one transfer on my TTM.

They do appreciate fast flow and lots of algae to munch on. I'd have them as one of the last tangs to introduce as they can be downright aggresive to new additions.

 

[Alanc425]

No one is being negative but at this point im not sure what you are looking for? The biggest issues with achilles are space (which you dont want to hear about), quarantine and ich (which seems like you also don't want to hear about), and getting it to eat (which its doing). Other than that it's just a fish at the end of the day, make sure it eats and doesn't die.

The only other tip I can suggest is once the achilles gets settled and establishes dominance, prepare for it to be very aggressive to fish you add in going forward.

 

[R6REEFER]

Good luck with the process. If the fish is eating, it will be fine. I have been in the hobby 10 years and never once QT a fish. The tangs gets spots and then they go away. A eating fish will beat ich every time. Placing a beautiful achilles in some tiny QT tank with pvc could cause unnecessary stress, causing it to stop eating and could lead to death. Tang police say 6 to 8 feet for space for large tangs, yet QT police say QT in a tiny glass box for months with minimal filtration. I say keep it simple, place it in a large tank full of live rock, minimize stress and feed often, and it will be fine.

Great work being patient, finding a healthy speciman and good luck on this exciting journey.

I like your style bro. Common sense!!! My goal was to get the tang into his new home, feed him as much as possible, set up an acclimation schedule for lighting and flow, and pretty much let him do as he pleases. I even have my dining room roped off and the kitchen light switch taped down so no one will flick on the lights or walk too close and spook him. I'm the only one he doesn't get nervous with but I've been spending a ton of time with him. Bottom line keep a stress free environment for him to get acclimated to.

 

[R6REEFER]

No one is being negative but at this point im not sure what you are looking for? The biggest issues with achilles are space (which you dont want to hear about), quarantine and ich (which seems like you also don't want to hear about), and getting it to eat (which its doing). Other than that it's just a fish at the end of the day, make sure it eats and doesn't die.

The only other tip I can suggest is once the achilles gets settled and establishes dominance, prepare for it to be very aggressive to fish you add in going forward.

I'm just looking for people's experiences, good advice, and related conversation. It's a big thing for me, I've been planning this for almost a year. I'd like to talk to people that have kept them and share experiences. If you haven't owned one or can't think of anything to say then move along buddy. No one is forcing anyone to reply but certain individuals are trying to nuke the thread and that's not what I'm here for. K.I.S.S.

 

[FarmerTy]

Good luck sir. Hopefully you won't have any issues with its transition to your tank since its eating already. That's one hurdle out of the way.

If it does come down with ich and you need advice treating, I'd hit up the same people in this thread that suggest QT and zero-ich environments. They've already all been down that road before.