Acro tip burn and fading

[hatfielj]

That’s normal, it’s when food is in the water. Mine do it daily.

Yeah, but this is different than the feeding response. I see it happening all day, without any stopping. They never retract. That's not normal. Then, the next thing that happens is the tips lose tissue and they die. It's like something is irritating them, but I can't figure out what.

 

[Hemmdog]

Yeah, but this is different than the feeding response. I see it happening all day, without any stopping. They never retract. That's not normal. Then, the next thing that happens is the tips lose tissue and they die. It's like something is irritating them, but I can't figure out what.

Oh I see. Do you mix your own sw ? Or buy at LFS? Do you store your water or anything? I had that problem in the past.

 

[ReeferNtraining]

I can tell you, you’re story is the exact same thing I went thru after adding a CO2 scrubber. It ended up crashing my whole tank. I never did figure out exactly what it was but I narrowed it down to either some kind of substance from the scrubbing media poisoning the tank or that the increased pH caused the coral skeleton to grow faster than the skin could keep up with. There is also the nutrient component of the additional consumption of phos and nitrate potentially bottoming out the nutrients intermittently. And if you don’t lower your lighting when that happens, you burn the coral. I ended up having to totally empty the tank and start over. I never did get it to recover after a year of trying. Needless to say, my two new systems are CO2 scrubber free.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Few pictures below. First is a red dragon, second is a BC Awarewolf, PC Rainbow, Little frag of Homewrecker not looking good, No name that's almost gone, then a shot of a BC Hyperberry that doesn't seem to be affected at all.

Did this all start after you added the rox?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Thanks for the pics. This is exactly the problem I've been having with my tank lately. Have you noticed that the tips first show signs of distress by extending their "guts" I can always tell when it's going to start happening because they leave their guts hanging out of the tips and it's like they end up digesting themselves down to the skeleton. The process seems to happen at random for me. Recent ICP analysis didn't show anything. I have searched for pests in the past and never found anything obvious. Perhaps there's something microscopic, but my tiny microscope can't see anything.

I just have a hard time believing it's due to alkalinity. My alk has not gone out of the 8 or 9 range that I'm aware of. I actually suspect it could be something else like an unknown pest or virus. Who knows

Are you using gfo or carbon dosing?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I can tell you, you’re story is the exact same thing I went thru after adding a CO2 scrubber. It ended up crashing my whole tank. I never did figure out exactly what it was but I narrowed it down to either some kind of substance from the scrubbing media poisoning the tank or that the increased pH caused the coral skeleton to grow faster than the skin could keep up with. There is also the nutrient component of the additional consumption of phos and nitrate potentially bottoming out the nutrients intermittently. And if you don’t lower your lighting when that happens, you burn the coral. I ended up having to totally empty the tank and start over. I never did get it to recover after a year of trying. Needless to say, my two new systems are CO2 scrubber free.

I don’t understand the fascination with chasing ph. Ive never worried about ph. I literally have no idea what my ph is, for almost 20 years of reefing

 

[jschultzbass]

Did this all start after you added the rox?

A few weeks after adding the rox

Are you using gfo or carbon dosing?

No GFO or Carbon dosing at all

I don’t understand the fascination with chasing ph. Ive never worried about ph. I literally have no idea what my ph is, for almost 20 years of reefing

I get that. The only reason I started was due to some recent data that corals grow faster with higher pH so thought I'd try since I didn't read anything bad about using a CO2 scrubber. I'll be going back to how I had the tank before with no carbon or CO2 dosing and maybe get rid of filter socks.

 

[jschultzbass]

I can tell you, you’re story is the exact same thing I went thru after adding a CO2 scrubber. It ended up crashing my whole tank. I never did figure out exactly what it was but I narrowed it down to either some kind of substance from the scrubbing media poisoning the tank or that the increased pH caused the coral skeleton to grow faster than the skin could keep up with. There is also the nutrient component of the additional consumption of phos and nitrate potentially bottoming out the nutrients intermittently. And if you don’t lower your lighting when that happens, you burn the coral. I ended up having to totally empty the tank and start over. I never did get it to recover after a year of trying. Needless to say, my two new systems are CO2 scrubber free.

Don't say that! haha. I hope mine will recover. I'll quiet CO2 scrubbing. I'm also going to lower lighting another 20% for now.

 

[jschultzbass]

Think that PAR measurement in new tank would be the critical change here, since it is implied water chemistry and flow are good.

The notion that a slow change over weeks by one point dkh, all the while staying within the 7-9 range, will cause burnt tips seems... improbable? Now if you are driving a Ferrari at the extremes of Alk in the 12-13 range and it swings up another point... then maybe.

ICP test seems like a good idea, new tank could have a little nut/screw/gasket dropped into sump slowly leaching a heavy metal like tin (happened to me) and you will feel better knowing it. Don't waste your cash on a K+ test you will use once, put that money to an ICP test that will tell you K+ anyways.

Unless you are running ULM, my understanding of expert opinion is that K+ is unlikely to be consumed significantly, since added food decaying will release plenty of K+ into the water to replete tissue growth.

Good luck

I know how important PAR is but didn't think much of it since everything was doing great. The K+ test wasn't expensive so thought I'd try anyway. The ICP tests can't come back soon enough!

 

[jschultzbass]

You lowered both dosers, right? 2 part is balanced. Just double checking.

Damage appears to be either a rapid Alk rise or a rapid PO4 drop, which can do as much damage as an Alk rise. My experience is one of testing testing and killing killing. Only when I forced myself to back off and do everything slowly, goofy slow, did things improve. Every little change you make adds stress to an Acro. It will vary coral to coral, acro to acro. Some acros have been in the hobby for years and are resistant to change, some like the expensive named varieties might be fairly new and sensitive to change. If you change Alk, and change nutrients and change, say, lighting all within a short period of time you're asking for trouble. Unfortunately I can't say for sure if my advice is any better than any other advice, only that the less I change things better success I have.

Let me explain this another way.

There are experienced acro keepers out there who have super healthy acros and have an accidental Alk spike and lose nothing. Why? Initial health of the corals possibly combined with only keeping rugged tank adapted acros.

Based on this my advice is to do very little other than making sure params are ok and let it ride. I don't like running rox carbon, I don't like filter socks. You're taking the goodies out of the water. goodies = highly scientific term. The tank is still on the newer side and stripping nutrients is never a good idea. I would probably get rid of these and let the tank dirty up to give what you have a chance. Once they are healthy again, in 6 months or so, you can slowly experiment with reducing nutrients to bring out any missing colors. You may discover, as many of us have, that many do better in 'dirty' water.

Good advice. ROX is out, next will be filter socks. CO2 scrubbing is out. Keeping Alk at 8.0. Calcium and Alk I had lowered together as 2-part.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

It’s good that you’re on top of it and, more importantly, your acros are still alive. They’re hurting, but not dead. Some have said to snip the burnt tips off but you don’t have to. It’s funny I have 20+ tenuis in my tank but I have this one tort that has survived through all my struggles. It’s the only one that will get burnt tips. It’s like an acro alarm for me. The burnt tips will just wither away when the acros perk up. Keep us posted.

 

[KrisReef]

Do you have any fish in this system?
I think the corals look off somehow, like they might be starving for (planktonic) nutrients?
Still, having them look better after a water change sounds like they liked the fresh dose of trace elements?
& Sorry for the rough times in the tank.
I wish I had never had any either, but I am glad you posted what you are dealing with. The ICP may help shed some light?
I agree with the idea of going dirty, but if that doesn't slow this down then
I would recommend you drop the output of your lights, especially the shorter wavelengths if that fixture allows that adjustment? Otherwise I would shorten the period they are in use. GL

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I just removed my bag of Red Sea activated carbon too. Just to be safe. #scared

 

[Smarkow]

I know how important PAR is but didn't think much of it since everything was doing great. The K+ test wasn't expensive so thought I'd try anyway. The ICP tests can't come back soon enough!

Yeah I bought a red sea K test too. Never use it much. Trying to save you a few buck for more pretty sticks

In fairness.. I’m not certain I perform the test reliably enough for it it help, and it takes some time. More I read, the less I think K is truly an important element for a reefer to test regularly.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

OP went with Red Sea K test??? Salifert is the most acccurate. My Red Sea test will read 550+(Way High) but my salifert is usually within 5-10% of my icp results.

 

[markalot]

Good luck, hopefully everything recovers!

When you get your test results back resist the urge to change anything unless something obvious is really off (like a high heavy metal reading). Test Alk frequently for a while, test calcium less frequently but often enough to make sure your doser is doing its job and let it ride.

 

[hatfielj]

Oh I see. Do you mix your own sw ? Or buy at LFS? Do you store your water or anything? I had that problem in the past.

I mix my own. I haven't noticed a specific association with water changes. It can happen out of the blue just when I think everything is fine and I haven't changed anything.

 

[jschultzbass]

Do you have any fish in this system?
I think the corals look off somehow, like they might be starving for (planktonic) nutrients?
Still, having them look better after a water change sounds like they liked the fresh dose of trace elements?
& Sorry for the rough times in the tank.
I wish I had never had any either, but I am glad you posted what you are dealing with. The ICP may help shed some light?
I agree with the idea of going dirty, but if that doesn't slow this down then
I would recommend you drop the output of your lights, especially the shorter wavelengths if that fixture allows that adjustment? Otherwise I would shorten the period they are in use. GL

I do have fish in the system. I feed them twice a day with a combination of LRS Reef Frenzy, Fish frenzy and some flake food and Nori. I do not feed my corals directly. I've thought about it but they were growing so good I didn't think it was worth the risk of a nutrient spike.
Thanks, I'm hoping the ICP will shed some light as well. If it doesn't, maybe that's a good thing too?
Tips on the lighting sounds good as well.

 

[jschultzbass]

OP went with Red Sea K test??? Salifert is the most acccurate. My Red Sea test will read 550+(Way High) but my salifert is usually within 5-10% of my icp results.

I went with Salifert for the K test.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I went with Salifert for the K test.

Good choice
The Red Sea is inaccurate and a real b$&@? to complete