Acro tip burn and fading

[jschultzbass]

Well, more corals are starting to burn at the tips, most now at least somewhat affected. Will be doing another water change this week but other than that I have been keeping things as stable as possible....

 

[hatfielj]

I feel your pain. Hang in there. My display has had pretty much the exact same issue for awhile now. Interestingly since I lowered the alk to the 7-8 range it seems to have stopped. At least for the last couple of weeks or more. I did see some brief "gut expulsion" from the tips this past weekend when I did a big water change, but it went away after a few hours and hasn't come back. Makes me wonder if it is something in my water change water? Maybe it caused a brief alk swing? Though, my system alkalinity stayed rock solid even after the water change. Also I had a very large astrea snail spawning event right before which is why I did a big water change, so I don't know if it had anything to do with that. It's a definite head scratcher though.
I have a separate frag tank/grow out system that I transferred some frags to and ever since they've been moved they've been growing and looking happy as can be. So, I am convinced it has something to do with the water chemistry or some unknown toxin in the water. I just don't know where it's coming from or what it is. I am going to send a sample of my newly mixed salt water to ICP for analysis soon. I keep hoping I'll find some heavy metal in there to blame, but last test I sent (to icp-analysis) was all good, though I now don't think that company is trustworthy based on reading on R2R.

 

[jschultzbass]

I feel your pain. Hang in there. My display has had pretty much the exact same issue for awhile now. Interestingly since I lowered the alk to the 7-8 range it seems to have stopped. At least for the last couple of weeks or more. I did see some brief "gut expulsion" from the tips this past weekend when I did a big water change, but it went away after a few hours and hasn't come back. Makes me wonder if it is something in my water change water? Maybe it caused a brief alk swing? Though, my system alkalinity stayed rock solid even after the water change. Also I had a very large astrea snail spawning event right before which is why I did a big water change, so I don't know if it had anything to do with that. It's a definite head scratcher though.
I have a separate frag tank/grow out system that I transferred some frags to and ever since they've been moved they've been growing and looking happy as can be. So, I am convinced it has something to do with the water chemistry or some unknown toxin in the water. I just don't know where it's coming from or what it is. I am going to send a sample of my newly mixed salt water to ICP for analysis soon. I keep hoping I'll find some heavy metal in there to blame, but last test I sent (to icp-analysis) was all good, though I now don't think that company is trustworthy based on reading on R2R.

Mine continues to decline. Some of my bigger colonies that were growing like weeds are now recessing tissue from the tips down. I'm pretty convinced that I'll lose all my acros in that tank before this is done. Hopefully I can get the frag tank setup this weekend and then in a month transfer whatever is alive to it. It's painful to watch, thousands of dollars down the drain. I have a Derasa clam that seems pretty happy and my three chalices growing on the bottom, few acans and zoas don't seem affected. My Scoly is starting to recede though and don't think he'll make it. That's a bummer, I loved that scoly. All fish continue to thrive with no losses since they went into that tank.
Now that you mentioned snails, Since this all started I have noticed a ton of small (1/2") snails on my glass at night but all but disappeared during the day. I just figured there was a big snail hatch but wasn't too concerned. They do get into my Gyres every once in a while and I need to get them out but haven't thought much of it other than that. Could these play a part?

 

[RussiReef]

If after you do water changes you see no improvement, I suggest check quality of yours RODI water.

 

[jschultzbass]

If after you do water changes you see no improvement, I suggest check quality of yours RODI water.

The water change seems to make things better for a few days but then back to dying. I haven't changed anything in my salt or RODI routine from when everything was thriving.

 

[RussiReef]

The water change seems to make things better for a few days but then back to dying. I haven't changed anything in my salt or RODI routine from when everything was thriving.

Check if your tap water treated with chloramin. After installing chloramine filter to my RODI system, I have a better success grow corals.

 

[Wu Tang Clam]

As above.
When was the last time you changed your di resin? Even if you’re getting 0 TDS but haven’t changed di for a while stuff can be getting past.

If everything’s been good in the past and slowly things are getting worse it would be good practice to give your system the once over...new membrane,restrictor,filters and Di

 

[jschultzbass]

As above.
When was the last time you changed your di resin? Even if you’re getting 0 TDS but haven’t changed di for a while stuff can be getting past.

If everything’s been good in the past and slowly things are getting worse it would be good practice to give your system the once over...new membrane,restrictor,filters and Di

I change my DI resin pretty frequently. I just ordered new RO membranes and will replace those. It has been over a year since the last time. Also order new sediment and carbon filter to freshen everything up.

 

[jschultzbass]

Another update. Corals still not looking good. There are a few frags that aren't bad but most of my fist size colonies are on the outs. Work has been crazy so am still working on plumbing for the frag tank so hopefully soon on that. I did rent the LED PAR meter from BRS to see what my lights are putting out at the settings I like. I have dimmed them when the tips started burning but with my favorite settings back on I got 200 - 220 on the sand bed by my chalices and most acros in the 350 - 400 range with a couple up to 450 towards the top and a couple in the 250 - 350 range towards the bottom. I'm not sure what this tell me but the numbers seem to be in range for what you'd want for acros.

 

[hatfielj]

I'm convinced we have the same thing going on with our tanks. My display is unable to support acropora any more without this happening. I have watched every single acro in my tank do this same thing. There were some colonies that I thought were resistant and had not shown signs of disease, now even those are sick. At this point, I'm giving up on acros in my display. I already have a completely separate frag system going and those acros are doing great. Even acros I originally took from my display are now growing and thriving. It's insane. I don't understand it one bit.
It's not just acros that seem to be affected. My moni-caps have not grown much at all since I got them 9 months ago. I have other encrusting monti's that occaisionally look stressed and stop growing. My zoo's and palys grow still. I have a bunch of shrooms that don't seem ill. My LPS are not growing much, but aren't dying back. The whole tank just seems stagnant in terms of growth.
My parameters have been stable. My water quality is really top notch from what I can tell. My RO/DI system is ultra pure. The same salt mix and water is used in my frag tank and display so it can't be that.
I've wondered if it could be some sort of chemical on my hands, but I generally keep my hands out of tank and wear nitrile gloves when feeding. There are times that I have to reach in to do water changes or whatever, but I make sure to rinse my hands and dry them in clean water first. Plus, I would think that all corals would be equally affected in that scenario, not just sps/lps.
I wonder if it's some sort of bacteria or virus, but if that's the case, you would expect my frag tank to be infected too, because I have moved frags there before they showed signs of illness and those frags are thriving and growing like never before. There are frags in my frag tank that literally did not grow even a millimeter in my display in 9 months, that as soon as I moved them they started encrusting and branching within a few weeks time!
This is the most frustrating thing I've ever dealt with and I have no idea what it is. I'm completely stumped. I'm actually seriously contemplating starting over with this tank or setting up a new display elsewhere in my house and using this one as a FOWLR. My fish are fat and happy at least. I'm going to give it another month or so to see if things settle down once I remove the last few pieces of acros.

 

[evolved]

Have either of you considered dosing/testing iodine? Red Sea's test kit isn't half bad for it.

I saw the "low iodine" comments earlier in the thread where that was pointed to as the problem, and considering that's the only common thing I see here to my own woes a while back, I'm beginning to think that could be a lot more significant than I'd ever realized. Perhaps something to consider?

 

[dwest]

Another update. Corals still not looking good. There are a few frags that aren't bad but most of my fist size colonies are on the outs. Work has been crazy so am still working on plumbing for the frag tank so hopefully soon on that. I did rent the LED PAR meter from BRS to see what my lights are putting out at the settings I like. I have dimmed them when the tips started burning but with my favorite settings back on I got 200 - 220 on the sand bed by my chalices and most acros in the 350 - 400 range with a couple up to 450 towards the top and a couple in the 250 - 350 range towards the bottom. I'm not sure what this tell me but the numbers seem to be in range for what you'd want for acros.

You have a real head scratcher here for sure. A couple of things that might be far out there, but may be worth a thought. The first is have you put in any non aquarium silicone in the system? Even a couple of dabs somewhere? The second is do you still have the brown slime? Have you put it under a microscope to check for dinos?

 

[TaylorJames]

This is the kind of stuff that keeps me up at night

 

[Foothill Corals]

I don’t know if this applies but I will through this idea into the mix.

I had this happen once before though I never really new why it happened but suspected it was “crap” (technical word) being released from the sand bed. Basically Old tank syndrome. I shifted a few rocks around released a little cloud no big deal, but from then on one of my wrasses kept digging and the tank was never the same until I finally removed all the sand.

 

[jschultzbass]

I'm convinced we have the same thing going on with our tanks. My display is unable to support acropora any more without this happening. I have watched every single acro in my tank do this same thing. There were some colonies that I thought were resistant and had not shown signs of disease, now even those are sick. At this point, I'm giving up on acros in my display. I already have a completely separate frag system going and those acros are doing great. Even acros I originally took from my display are now growing and thriving. It's insane. I don't understand it one bit.
It's not just acros that seem to be affected. My moni-caps have not grown much at all since I got them 9 months ago. I have other encrusting monti's that occaisionally look stressed and stop growing. My zoo's and palys grow still. I have a bunch of shrooms that don't seem ill. My LPS are not growing much, but aren't dying back. The whole tank just seems stagnant in terms of growth.
My parameters have been stable. My water quality is really top notch from what I can tell. My RO/DI system is ultra pure. The same salt mix and water is used in my frag tank and display so it can't be that.
I've wondered if it could be some sort of chemical on my hands, but I generally keep my hands out of tank and wear nitrile gloves when feeding. There are times that I have to reach in to do water changes or whatever, but I make sure to rinse my hands and dry them in clean water first. Plus, I would think that all corals would be equally affected in that scenario, not just sps/lps.
I wonder if it's some sort of bacteria or virus, but if that's the case, you would expect my frag tank to be infected too, because I have moved frags there before they showed signs of illness and those frags are thriving and growing like never before. There are frags in my frag tank that literally did not grow even a millimeter in my display in 9 months, that as soon as I moved them they started encrusting and branching within a few weeks time!
This is the most frustrating thing I've ever dealt with and I have no idea what it is. I'm completely stumped. I'm actually seriously contemplating starting over with this tank or setting up a new display elsewhere in my house and using this one as a FOWLR. My fish are fat and happy at least. I'm going to give it another month or so to see if things settle down once I remove the last few pieces of acros.

Definitely sounds like we're experiencing similar things. the last couple SPS pieces that have been holding out are finally starting to be affected. My zoas and acans seem to be doing ok but my clam that was growing like a weed bit the dust last week. I don't know what I'll do yet. Maybe after they all die I'll give it 6 months and then try again with some cheap frags. Like you, my fish aren't affected in any way. I do have a 300 gallon that I'm about to set up right now that was going to be my predator tank but maybe I'll move all my current fish to it and strip this tank down, bleach the rock, get new sand and start over and see what happens....we'll see.

 

[jschultzbass]

Have either of you considered dosing/testing iodine? Red Sea's test kit isn't half bad for it.

I saw the "low iodine" comments earlier in the thread where that was pointed to as the problem, and considering that's the only common thing I see here to my own woes a while back, I'm beginning to think that could be a lot more significant than I'd ever realized. Perhaps something to consider?

The two ICP tests I got differed in Iodine results. One was .08 ppm and the other was .01 ppm. I'll get a test kit and some Iodine supplement and make sure it's in a good range. With all the water changes I've been doing I wouldn't think this should be an issue but you never know. I'll update once I get things going.

 

[jschultzbass]

You have a real head scratcher here for sure. A couple of things that might be far out there, but may be worth a thought. The first is have you put in any non aquarium silicone in the system? Even a couple of dabs somewhere? The second is do you still have the brown slime? Have you put it under a microscope to check for dinos?

I haven't used any silicone at all on this system. The brown slime pretty much went away when I stopped dosing all the aminos from KZ. I get a little bit on my sand bed between water changes but not much at all. The rocks are pretty clean as well. Over the last month my refugium has seen an increase of algae though...to the point I'm thinking of scrubbing it down. Green hair algae and red mat algae. It hasn't affected my display though.

 

[jschultzbass]

I don’t know if this applies but I will through this idea into the mix.

I had this happen once before though I never really new why it happened but suspected it was “crap” (technical word) being released from the sand bed. Basically Old tank syndrome. I shifted a few rocks around released a little cloud no big deal, but from then on one of my wrasses kept digging and the tank was never the same until I finally removed all the sand.

I debated heavily if I wanted to go barebottom or not but decided to use live sand from CaribSea. I keep my sand bed vacuumed every time I do a water change to keep it turned over. It hadn't affected anything before....

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Keep in mind that acros can show visible damage weeks after the incident happened.

this is really helpful.

I had an alk spike about 2 weeks ago. Nothing really changed at the time and I slowly brought my alk back down to normal levels (I keep my alk 7.8-8.0 and it spiked to 9.3). Over the last few days I keep seeing new spots of burnt tips on my acros and I couldn’t figure out why since everything is stable now.

so thanks for pointing that out! I just hope these new little burnt tips stop

 

[AquaBiomics]

I have a Waterbox 170.4/5 that I set up last July. Total free water volume of 130 gallons. I used fresh sand and water but transferred over my live rock from existing old setup. I had a couple Acros that were doing ok in the old tank and transferred those over as well. Everything started to flourish and I ordered a couple packs from Battlecorals with everything doing very well. Have about 20 acro frags to mini colonies in the tank. About a month ago I lost a small colony. I was bummed but know it happens. Everything else was doing ok. Well the last 3 weeks more corals have started to burn at the tips. I checked my water parameters and they are as follows:
Alk: 9.0 (Hanna and Salifert)
Calcium: 420 (Salifert)
Mag: 1350 (Salifert)
Nitrate: 5 (Nyos)
Phosphate: 0.03 (Hanna)
pH: ranging from 7.8 - 8.1 night to day
I did a big water change of about 35% a week ago and lowered my Alk to 8.0 thinking maybe higher alk could burn the tips and things started to look up but now they are taking a dive again. about 25% of the acros are burning at the tips and not looking good. A few are good size mini colonies grown from little frags. It seems to just come all of a sudden. I did add a CO2 reactor to my skimmer air inlet which has raised my pH to 8.1 - 8.3 night to day a couple weeks ago thinking this might help but still having issues.
More info on the tank:
Two Gyre 250s for flow
Reef Octopus Varios-6 return pump
Vertex Omega 180 skimmer
Spyglass carbon reactor with ROX carbon (only use about a cup a month based on BRS recommendation on my tank size)
Two 7" 200 micron filter socks
Orphek V4s for lighting
GHL 2.1 doser to dose Alk and Cal
Only other thing I add is the KZ Coral System package of amino acids

Everything was doing so well and then all of a sudden they are dying with no changes made to the system. Only thing added since this started happening is the CO2 scrubber. Please help me with ideas on how to combat this. Thank you.

Youre gonna get a wide variety of responses on this one. I'm in the alk & light camp myself. I've seen tip burn in every tank I've run if the alkalinity got above 8. And almost never seen tips burn when alk is kept at NSW levels (~7)