Acropora Help Please

[gherewolf]

I can't seem to figure out why I can only keep acropora living for only about 60-90 days. It's usually color loss then slow tissue necrosis or some variation of the two. Would love to hear the opinion of some of you experts out there. Here’s my setup information.

Display Tank:

In Wall 225g (tank part in garage)
Euro-brace/Center Brace Glass 60"x36"x24"

Lighting:
60" 8 bulb ATI T5 fixture. - 11" above water

10:00 - 20:00 (10 hours)
2 blue plus -

10:30 - 19:30 (9 hours)
2 coral plus
2 aqua blue special
2 blue plus

48" ReefBrite xho in blue - 8:30 - 20:30 (12 hours)


Flow:
4x Vortech MP40s - 2 on each side of tank. antisync during pulse and nutrient modes.

Waveline 1200 Return (also feeds frag tank, chiller, calcium reactor, and BRS two stage carbon/gfo media reactor)

Filtration:
Skimz SL253 skimmer
AquaMaxx ctech 1 calcium reactor ( ReBorn Calcium and ReMag media) controlled by apex
Two stage BRS media reactor (ROX 0.8 Carbon, not using gfo at the moment)

Maintenance:
Monthly 40 gallon water change using Instant Ocean Reef Crystals.
Carbon change 2 times a month at recommended volume based on BRS calculator.


Latest Parameters:
Just ordered an ICP test to that should hopefully give some insight in a couple weeks. Otherwise...

Alk 8.7
Cal 520
Mg 1400
NO3 5
PO4 0.15 ( this is a little high but I am hesitant to add gfo before the ICP test)
pH 7.88 - 8.2
Salinity: 1.026
Temp: 77-78

 

[Crabs McJones]

What are you using in between your monthly water changes for calcium and alkalinity? 2 part, kalk, calcium reactor?

 

[tripdad]

I'm a long way from an expert but I only see 1 thing I would change. Get rid of the Rox Carbon. Several people have reported that it's a little too aggressive for some SPS tanks. I have run several others without problem. On another note, what's your fishload like? Are your corals getting enough food, fish poop or supplements? They have to eat.

 

[ycnibrc]

Hows the temp is it stable? Your tank part in garage is it cold at night? How long have the tank been running? Do u dose any thing? Any bacteria source aka aquaforest, zeo, redsea ECT.....

 

[Dburr1014]

Do you keep chemicals in the garage? I.e. Gas, solvents, ect.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I can't seem to figure out why I can only keep acropora living for only about 60-90 days. It's usually color loss then slow tissue necrosis or some variation of the two. Would love to hear the opinion of some of you experts out there. Here’s my setup information.

Display Tank:

In Wall 225g (tank part in garage)
Euro-brace/Center Brace Glass 60"x36"x24"

Lighting:
60" 8 bulb ATI T5 fixture. - 11" above water

10:00 - 20:00 (10 hours)
2 blue plus -

10:30 - 19:30 (9 hours)
2 coral plus
2 aqua blue special
2 blue plus

48" ReefBrite xho in blue - 8:30 - 20:30 (12 hours)


Flow:
4x Vortech MP40s - 2 on each side of tank. antisync during pulse and nutrient modes.

Waveline 1200 Return (also feeds frag tank, chiller, calcium reactor, and BRS two stage carbon/gfo media reactor)

Filtration:
Skimz SL253 skimmer
AquaMaxx ctech 1 calcium reactor ( ReBorn Calcium and ReMag media) controlled by apex
Two stage BRS media reactor (ROX 0.8 Carbon, not using gfo at the moment)

Maintenance:
Monthly 40 gallon water change using Instant Ocean Reef Crystals.
Carbon change 2 times a month at recommended volume based on BRS calculator.


Latest Parameters:
Just ordered an ICP test to that should hopefully give some insight in a couple weeks. Otherwise...

Alk 8.7
Cal 520
Mg 1400
NO3 5
PO4 0.15 ( this is a little high but I am hesitant to add gfo before the ICP test)
pH 7.88 - 8.2
Salinity: 1.026
Temp: 77-78

How old is your system?

 

[gherewolf]

What are you using in between your monthly water changes for calcium and alkalinity? 2 part, kalk, calcium reactor?

I am currently using an undersized calcium reactor but it seems to be keeping up as I test alkalinity once every couple of days. The plan is to upgrade when I can get more acropora growing.

 

[Crabs McJones]

I somehow missed that part, the tank part in the garage. Temp swings or airborn contaminants could be a possibility.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Many factors lead to RTN and STN. Pests and bacteria are some main culprits, as is water chemistry, stability, lighting, flow and health of newly acquired frags.

Contaminants, as stated are apart of this as well. Usually contaminants will effect other corals and their health too.

 

[ShadowR55]

How old is your tank?

Have you checked Par? Corals only really need 4 hours of light each day to grow my peak lighting is set for 5 hours and It ramps up and down for 2 hours so a total of 9 hours and then I have the blue scenic lights on pretty dim.

Do they start losing color from the tips or base up?

 

[madweazl]

You're asking a lot from an MP40 on that size tank. They should be running at 100%.

Edit: saw the chart.

One other thing; I've never seen a coral that was "happy" in a constant flow (nutrient mode).

 

[Flippers4pups]

How old is your tank?

Have you checked Par? Corals only really need 4 hours of light each day to grow my peak lighting is set for 5 hours and It ramps up and down for 2 hours so a total of 9 hours and then I have the blue scenic lights on pretty dim.

Do they start losing color from the tips or base up?

Agreed, if color fades overall it's usually to high par or lack of nutrients. Contaminants as well.

 

[Flippers4pups]

@gherewolf, let's back up and get some basic info first to rule out something's.

1. How old is your system?

2. Do you use a coral dip for pests before placing in your tank?

3. Do you light acclimate your new corals?

 

[gherewolf]

Thank you all for the responses and questions. I knew I was going to be missing some information but you all are sharp!

I'm a long way from an expert but I only see 1 thing I would change. Get rid of the Rox Carbon. Several people have reported that it's a little too aggressive for some SPS tanks. I have run several others without problem. On another note, what's your fishload like? Are your corals getting enough food, fish poop or supplements? They have to eat.

I have always run the carbon thinking it would take care of any harsh elements like metal contaminates. I have some in the reactor right now that has been there since the first of the month so I am thinking it will most likely be depleted by now. Which leads me to be very curious when I send in the ICP analysis. Depending on the results would I still run a different kind of carbon?

Hows the temp is it stable? Your tank part in garage is it cold at night? How long have the tank been running? Do u dose any thing? Any bacteria source aka aquaforest, zeo, redsea ECT.....

I live in southern California so nothing drastic as far as temperature. I am using about 1000w of heaters mixed between 3 and a 1hp chiller. However, I did have a dip early this month (January 1st) where the temp got down to 73.6

It's embarrassing to say but the tank has been running for almost 4 years now. Early on I had a bad habit of changing things all of the time like lighting, water change size and salt, different dosing, etc but now I am focused on keeping things consistent. The last major change was to the ATI 8 bulb t5 fixture with reefbrites. I was using halides but after seeing some local tanks and tanks on R2R with beautiful acros running T5s I made the switch. This was two months ago in November.

Fish count is about 30.
DT:
Blue tang
Convict tang
Tomini tang
3 yellow tang
Vlamingi tang
3 Bangia cardinals
Tailspot blenny
Midas blenny
7 bartletts anthias
Flame angel
2 occelaris clowns
Yellow watchman goby
Long nose hawk fish
Red mandarin
2 firefish
Purple Dottyback
Copperband Butterfly
McCoskers wrasse


Frag tank:
Starry blenny
Bangia cardinal
Convict tang
Springer's Damsel

I feed about 6 cubes per day of mixed Hikari frozen foods. Bloodworms, mega marine, mega marine algae, and coral gumbo. I also use 1 full sheet of nori a day, the big sheets. Twice a week I dose the recommended amount of acropower and reefroids as listed on the labels.

Do you keep chemicals in the garage? I.e. Gas, solvents, ect.

Nothing that I can think of. We don't park our cars in there. If something is chemically wrong I am hoping it will show up in the ICP test. I have the kit on order right now. There is some dust buildup on my light fixtures for example but not a lot in my opinion. We have two cats and their litter boxes are in the garage about 10 feet away from the tank on the floor.

How old is your system?

Almost 4 years... still trying to get it right.

 

[sawdonkey]

My corals never responded to carbon very well so I don’t run it, and If I do, I just throw it in a bag in the sump.

If you don’t have many acros, what’s eating up your alk and cal? Do you have other SPS (montis, Stylo, birdsnest, etc)? It just seems that a calRX might be unnecessary at this point and has a lot of room for error?

It wouldn’t hurt to bring that PO4 down to .03-.05. You could do it with a lanthanum chloride product if you don’t want to use GFO.

Are you able to keep easier SPS like Stylo and birdsnest?

 

[Flippers4pups]

Do you light acclimate your new additions?

Do you dip your new additions for pests?

RO/DI water?

Your water pramameters look okay. I highly doubt GAC has much to do with this, unless the fines are getting out into the DT.

 

[gherewolf]

I somehow missed that part, the tank part in the garage. Temp swings or airborn contaminants could be a possibility.

Only one temp swing that I saw was earlier in the month when the temp got down to 73.6 then back up to 78 throughout the day.
No airborne contaminants that I am aware of. If there are, I am hoping they show up in the ICP test.

Many factors lead to RTN and STN. Pests and bacteria are some main culprits, as is water chemistry, stability, lighting, flow and health of newly acquired frags.

Contaminants, as stated are apart of this as well. Usually contaminants will effect other corals and their health too.

That is interesting because I do have other corals that seem to be doing very well. Leathers, frogspawn, ricordea, lps, both red and green montipora digitata. and candy canes. I haven't observed any pests on the corals or during dips.

How old is your tank?

Have you checked Par? Corals only really need 4 hours of light each day to grow my peak lighting is set for 5 hours and It ramps up and down for 2 hours so a total of 9 hours and then I have the blue scenic lights on pretty dim.

Do they start losing color from the tips or base up?

I have not checked the Par but it sounds like I should be taking a look at this and then possibly adjust my lighting schedule accordingly. PhotoPeriod is quite longer than yours.

Lighting:
60" 8 bulb ATI T5 fixture. - 11" above water

10:00 - 20:00 (10 hours)
2 blue plus

10:30 - 19:30 (9 hours)
2 coral plus
2 aqua blue special
2 blue plus

8:30 - 20:30 (12 hours)
48" ReefBrite xho in blue

I have seen color loss and tissue loss from both the bottom up and tips down. I can't seem to correlate it to anything yet.

You're asking a lot from an MP40 on that size tank. They should be running at 100%.

Edit: saw the chart.

One other thing; I've never seen a coral that was "happy" in a constant flow (nutrient mode).

I had all 4 at 90% but it seemed like overkill when the flow was creating valleys in the sand bed to the point where I could see the bottom glass of the tank.

I did go a little custom on my mode setup trying to vary things a little from reef crest, to nutrient transport mode, to 12 second pulse from the left then the right. Are most folks just running a straight reefcrest mode?

Agreed, if color fades overall it's usually to high par or lack of nutrients. Contaminants as well.

Definitely going to check my par when I can get a hold of a meter.

@gherewolf, let's back up and get some basic info first to rule out something's.

1. How old is your system?

2. Do you use a coral dip for pests before placing in your tank?

3. Do you light acclimate your new corals?

Systems is almost 4 years old but like I said before we can probably throw out the first couple of years.

I dip with bayer. Ratio is 20ml to 1000ml tank water. 10-15 min. I use a turkey baster to blow down the corals.

I do not light acclimate my new corals. What is the suggestion/duration?

 

[dwest]

Only one temp swing that I saw was earlier in the month when the temp got down to 73.6 then back up to 78 throughout the day.
No airborne contaminants that I am aware of. If there are, I am hoping they show up in the ICP test.



That is interesting because I do have other corals that seem to be doing very well. Leathers, frogspawn, ricordea, lps, both red and green montipora digitata. and candy canes. I haven't observed any pests on the corals or during dips.



I have not checked the Par but it sounds like I should be taking a look at this and then possibly adjust my lighting schedule accordingly. PhotoPeriod is quite longer than yours.

Lighting:
60" 8 bulb ATI T5 fixture. - 11" above water

10:00 - 20:00 (10 hours)
2 blue plus

10:30 - 19:30 (9 hours)
2 coral plus
2 aqua blue special
2 blue plus

8:30 - 20:30 (12 hours)
48" ReefBrite xho in blue

I have seen color loss and tissue loss from both the bottom up and tips down. I can't seem to correlate it to anything yet.



I had all 4 at 90% but it seemed like overkill when the flow was creating valleys in the sand bed to the point where I could see the bottom glass of the tank.

I did go a little custom on my mode setup trying to vary things a little from reef crest, to nutrient transport mode, to 12 second pulse from the left then the right. Are most folks just running a straight reefcrest mode?



Definitely going to check my par when I can get a hold of a meter.



Systems is almost 4 years old but like I said before we can probably throw out the first couple of years.

I dip with bayer. Ratio is 20ml to 1000ml tank water. 10-15 min. I use a turkey baster to blow down the corals.

I do not light acclimate my new corals. What is the suggestion/duration?

This is somewhat mind boggling. You are doing good things...

 

[gherewolf]

Thank you so much everyone! This is really getting me thinking and I really do appreciate all of the help!

My corals never responded to carbon very well so I don’t run it, and If I do, I just throw it in a bag in the sump.

If you don’t have many acros, what’s eating up your alk and cal? Do you have other SPS (montis, Stylo, birdsnest, etc)? It just seems that a calRX might be unnecessary at this point and has a lot of room for error?

It wouldn’t hurt to bring that PO4 down to .03-.05. You could do it with a lanthanum chloride product if you don’t want to use GFO.

Are you able to keep easier SPS like Stylo and birdsnest?

Very interesting about the carbon. My understanding is that carbon helps create clear water and gets rid of any metal like substances. the current carbon I am running is probably depleted so I may just pull that a couple days before taking the ICP test sample to confirm it's not adding any value.

My alk has stayed pretty consistent around the mid 8s. Some corals are eating the alk and calcium right now and probably all of the coraline on the back wall of the tank.

I have been able to keep a couple good size colonies of montipora digitata, as well as various other softies and lps, even a clam on the sandbed. I do have about 7 frags of acropora in the tank right now that I have purchased within the last 30 days. They are looking decent so far. It is going to be interesting to see the progress of those and it will be helpful to post the play by play here.

I wanted to wait to add any GFO until after the ICP test, unless it wouldn't affect the results then there is no point in waiting.

Do you light acclimate your new additions?

Do you dip your new additions for pests?

RO/DI water?

Your water pramameters look okay. I highly doubt GAC has much to do with this, unless the fines are getting out into the DT.

Really curious about the light acclimation and duration. I did get three SPS yesterday from a local reefer. Should I start them on the sand bed and then progressively move them up?

Yes, using a bayer mixture for dipping.

RO/DI is showing 0 TDS. Just ordered more sediment filters and carbon blocks for a fresh start. I could be better at changing these every 6 months or so, I need to write that down.

 

[Daniel 123]

It is my opinion, and I wouldn't take it for much but... you feed way too much food, like on another level overfeed. 6 cubes everyday, no wonder your phosphates are at 0.15, how are you not battling an algae outbreak with all those nutrients in the water, especially with the amount of light on the tank?
You could use the lanthium chloride as suggested, RedSea Nopox, to pull the phosphates down however if and when you stop dosing it you may get a spike in nitrates, as what I understand from my LFS your basically dosing a sugar which target feeds a specific bacteria, if you abruptly stop dosing that newly formed bacteria may begin to die off, hence the spike. However in your case you have a 4 year old tank so I don't know...

Id start out by feeding less, maybe every other day, look at it this way, the fish frenzy when food is introduced is because it is naturally programmed in the fish's head that they don't know when the next meal will be it could even be several days so eat up while you can.. Hopefully this bit gives you something to think about maybe others have input.