Adding Aquacultured Live Rock... What's your take?

[Rick.45cal]

When you get it, if it smells nasty you’ll have to cure it in another container with circulation and do water changes on it. Since some places ship it in water now, that won’t be such a problem. (But be prepared just in case).

The higher percentage you add the more critters you’re going to get. Since that’s what you’re looking for add as much as you can, for maximum enjoyment.

I wouldn’t let the thought of getting any pests dissuade you from it. I think (IMO) the positives far outweigh the negatives in that department.

 

[Pistondog]

When you get it, if it smells nasty you’ll have to cure it in another container with circulation and do water changes on it. Since some places ship it in water now, that won’t be such a problem. (But be prepared just in case).

The higher percentage you add the more critters you’re going to get. Since that’s what you’re looking for add as much as you can, for maximum enjoyment.

I wouldn’t let the thought of getting any pests dissuade you from it. I think (IMO) the positives far outweigh the negatives in that department.

Yes, stupid piston put 1st time gulf rock in New tank, after 3 day shipment.
Had to remove and clean dead clams and mussels, lots survived though.

Air freight next time.

 

[JRAD]

This is 10 lbs of aquacultured reef rock from Aqua Dreams. I really like the way it looks. Ordered 10 more. Tank is IM 30L. Live rock is what I have always used. I think any rock you put in a tank will get colonized and eventually be “live rock”. The rocks that are aquacultured are nice looking and seem to grow less algae in the early stages of tank maturity!

 

[Rick.45cal]

Yes, stupid piston put 1st time gulf rock in New tank, after 3 day shipment.
Had to remove and clean dead clams and mussels, lots survived though.

Air freight next time.

Die off on live rock can really do a number on an established system, if it stinks it’s better to be safe (and patient) than sorry. Curing it is no big deal if you have to do it.

If it’s shipped in water and doesn’t sit out on a hot tarmac all day you probably won’t have to worry about that.

 

[Vette67]

Something I’m surprised nobody mentions anymore. Back when I moved into my 3rd floor apartment in 1998, and restarted my 75 gallon reef, I started hearing clicks in my tank. I read somewhere, probably a book, about mantis shrimp. And I read about a technique to flush them out. I didn’t know which rock housed the shrimp, so I grabbed pieces of rock, one by one, and dipped them in a bucket of hyper saline water. This irritates the shrimp, which shot out of the rock as fast as it could presumably to get away from the irritating water, and ito the bucket, where it was easily captured. I don’t remember exactly, but I mixed the water to something like 1.040. The point of the story is that this was a well known technique for getting shrimp out of rocks in the late 90’s, so I’m sure it would work today. The quick dip is also supposed to not significantly hurt the micro fauna. So if I bought some ocean live rock, which I have considered, I would quarantine it in a bucket for a week or 2, and put some traps in it to try to capture pest shrimp, and I would even give each piece a quick dip in hyper saline water to see what else would shoot out. Then I could determine if I wanted that in my 180, or if I just put it in the fuge or sump. But at least I could control where the less desirable shrimp went.

 

[rusty hannon]

I've been following multiple threads lately talking about using aquacultured live rock rather than dry rock. In my time reefing, I've used live rock from established tanks and dry rock that I cleaned myself with muriatic acid to avoid pests. Lately though, I've been thinking about getting some aquacultured live rock as I've been reading about a lot of the reviews and benefits of it. The biodiversity is amazing with lots of great and surprising hitchhikers and added maturity of the rock boosts beneficial bacteria and fauna in the reef tank. The cons (as I understand it) are potential nasty hitchhikers.

So I'm wondering how many of you use aquacultured live rock, and what has been your take on the risks?

Also, if someone like me (since I have a tank where I used dry rock initially) were to add a bit of live rock to my tank for some more biodiversity, how much would I need to add?

Lastly, what's the process you would use if adding live rock to your already existing system? What would quarantine/checking it look like before putting it in the DT?

Photo by @KenO

I have a guy I've been getting my live rock from for 20 years.he dumped 4 barges of volcanic rock and now harvests it a and sand52 miles off shore.my tank will b up and stable with corals and fish in a week after that.there are hitchhijackers of all sorts but I elimanate them as I can.my wfes tank is not like that.she uses live ma.n made rock that's been cured in a raceway for months,but I honestly like finding new and different crittsrs a year or two later

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I would urge anyone doing this to be sure everything is shipped in water. Not wet - actually in water completely submerged - and go with overnight air freight.

It's a little bit of a pain - but I had zero die off due to shipping. Everything smelled like the ocean and I never saw any ammonia.

That's the biggest drawback for me; even pre-covid, the cost to ship the small amount I want would be north of $50 per pound because of the added water weight. I have considered driving to Florida from Houston and back just to transport it myself.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I'm a big fan of the aquacultered rock - specifically from TBS as I had a good experience.

HOWEVER - and this is big these days - you MUST commit to truly being OK with what comes in your shipment.

Many hobbyists do not have the patience or willingness to handle what may (or may not in all reality) be in those boxes of rock and ocean water you are going to receive.

We had a ton of great stuff - sponges, pods, little bitty pistol shrimp, all sorts of filter feeders, sponges, wonderful looking rock etc. Those were all the good stuff.

Then we get to what many consider bad. We had quite a few Whelk snails - one managed to get in to a tank with a clam - which spelled doom for the clam. Sad and annoying but I did not go on a whelk killing rampage.

We had several "gorilla" crabs. I didn't kill them as I committed to working with anything that came in. The crabs never caused us any problems even though 2 grew to about the size of a half dollar (not the legs - the body). I would hand feed them - we enjoyed them and still would be if it hadn't been for the next little critter.

We found a 3" oyster toadfish in our shipment. Eventually he grew large enough that he ate any and all of those crabs. Pretty sure he found any snails to be tasty treats as well.

Today our toadfish is about a foot long, resides in his very own 180 gallon aquarium and eats the same seafood we do - he gets it more often than we do though. He also tries to eat anything that gets in his tank. Including doing things like swimming around with the algae scraper one day last week.

I would do it again in a heartbeat - but I'm willing to work with and deal with anything that should show up.

If you are not willing to potentially sacrifice being able to have certain things (like a clam in my case) - I would think twice.

Totally agree. If I decide to pull the trigger, all the rock will go into its own tank. Then i can get out my colored flashlights and stare at all the new stuff day and night.

 

[IKD]

Something I’m surprised nobody mentions anymore. Back when I moved into my 3rd floor apartment in 1998, and restarted my 75 gallon reef, I started hearing clicks in my tank. I read somewhere, probably a book, about mantis shrimp. And I read about a technique to flush them out. I didn’t know which rock housed the shrimp, so I grabbed pieces of rock, one by one, and dipped them in a bucket of hyper saline water. This irritates the shrimp, which shot out of the rock as fast as it could presumably to get away from the irritating water, and ito the bucket, where it was easily captured. I don’t remember exactly, but I mixed the water to something like 1.040. The point of the story is that this was a well known technique for getting shrimp out of rocks in the late 90’s, so I’m sure it would work today. The quick dip is also supposed to not significantly hurt the micro fauna. So if I bought some ocean live rock, which I have considered, I would quarantine it in a bucket for a week or 2, and put some traps in it to try to capture pest shrimp, and I would even give each piece a quick dip in hyper saline water to see what else would shoot out. Then I could determine if I wanted that in my 180, or if I just put it in the fuge or sump. But at least I could control where the less desirable shrimp went.

I did this recently on some live rock shipped to me. I was able to evict a few non-Reef safe crabs and a couple bobbit worms with this method. That said, it did NOT work on a pair of larger fireworms I caught while the rock is still in my curing bin. Using a quick rinse with hydrogen peroxide worked quickly to get them out.

 

[LRT]

Great thread @Daniel@R2R. Glad I seen this again i forgot to watch it last time!

Not really sure when dry rock came along as i don't think it was available when I got out of reefing in early 2000's. I do get the benefits of dry rock and I'm not here to knock it by any means.
I've used both now but have personally come to the conclusion that live ocean rock benefits and cons far outweigh the pros and cons of dry rock at least for my system and what I need. Ill try to briefly explain.
First im not sure where the scare came in from using live rock with the unwanted hitchikers etc. It was all that was available back in the day and countless people have had success with it throughout the years before dry rock was ever concieved.
With just a little due diligence, clean up, rodi dipping, pest dipping, quarantine and proper use of live rock you can make all the cons of using it go away up front and reap the benefits.
One thing I've noticed clearly in my mixed live rock, dry rock system is that there is nothing like the biodiversity of liverock.
I can post pictures of my 8 month old system where algae or cyano bacteria simply doesn't grow on live rock or rock that i have crushed up in my system. Algae and unwanted cyano bacteria won't even grow on the crushed live rock that I have placed among dry crushed coral rock i just placed in my system a few months ago.
It is what it is at least for me.
Here's a few pix of gulfliverock. (Also have some walt smith fiji mixed in there.)
In sump and on frag tables- No unwanted anything.

Now here's a cpl tables i recently converted to crushed coral and sand when i made my mushroom garden tables. If you look closely you can actually see some of the crushed live rock I crushed up and used as rubble thay the cyano and algae isn't touching.
I hate looking at these tables btw. I vacuum them sometimes twice a day. Soon as i get the time im tearing it all back out of at least one table to start. And replacing with crushed live rock as i dont have the time or patience to deal with it when i simply have the solution for it on hand. Its a done deal lol.

This is kind of whinded here and apologize and ill try to wrap it up with methods im using to better my success with live rock and a few observations.
First with real live rock you should expect unwanted critters, comes with the territory i guess.
What I've found effective is thouroughly clean up my rock on arrival of all death and decomposed. Depending how long its out of water, and what rock you order and from where it can come packed with life, inverts, corals, clams, sea plants. You name it my gulfliverock had it.
Second cure it and continue to remove death and decomposure but while your curing dip your rock in rodi for a few minutes while doing water changes while your curing it. You would be surprised how many unwanted critters you lose.
Dip in melafix or bayer or whatever you want just be sure to leave inverts un exposed to dip. And dip in saltwater or rodi to remove dip before placing back in system.
And repeat process until cured and no more unwated critters are seen.
I could go on and on all night about it but these are the most important steps I try to take.

 

[adobo]

I've been following multiple threads lately talking about using aquacultured live rock rather than dry rock. In my time reefing, I've used live rock from established tanks and dry rock that I cleaned myself with muriatic acid to avoid pests. Lately though, I've been thinking about getting some aquacultured live rock as I've been reading about a lot of the reviews and benefits of it. The biodiversity is amazing with lots of great and surprising hitchhikers and added maturity of the rock boosts beneficial bacteria and fauna in the reef tank. The cons (as I understand it) are potential nasty hitchhikers.

So I'm wondering how many of you use aquacultured live rock, and what has been your take on the risks?

Also, if someone like me (since I have a tank where I used dry rock initially) were to add a bit of live rock to my tank for some more biodiversity, how much would I need to add?

Lastly, what's the process you would use if adding live rock to your already existing system? What would quarantine/checking it look like before putting it in the DT?

Photo by @KenO

I dunno. I've never seen the benefits of live rock actually quantified in any scientific way. There are a quite a few experienced reefers who swear by live rock and give the same reasons you give (beneficial bacteria and hitch hikers). Yet I am not sure what these beneficial bacterias are and what additional benefits you get from them beyond what you would get with dry rock, bottled bacteria and bacteria from tank additions would give you over time. The supposed benefits seem to always involve a lot of hand waving as opposed to detailed, itemized lists of exactly what the benefits are and how these benefits were quantified.

I will say though that hobbyists from decades past have been plagued with a lot of the same issues we see today with dry rock - cyano, dinos and nuissance algae. These things did not just start appearing when hobbyists started using live rock. Live rock, either collected from the wild or aqua cultured, are not the silver bullet for avoiding these issues. Anybody that tells you that live rock will ensure that you don't have these issues... I would take that stuff with a grain of salt. As for hitch hikers, yeah, you will get them. Some good. Others, not so much.

To me, the question comes down to, what problem are you trying to solve by introducing live rock? I think you should solve a problem with a solution, not figure out what problems that you could solve simply because you want live rock.

 

[Vette67]

I did this recently on some live rock shipped to me. I was able to evict a few non-Reef safe crabs and a couple bobbit worms with this method. That said, it did NOT work on a pair of larger fireworms I caught while the rock is still in my curing bin. Using a quick rinse with hydrogen peroxide worked quickly to get them out.

Excellent. I would not have done a peroxide dip too. That's good to know. Another tool to add to the arsenal...

 

[mickeysreef <*))))<]

buy some mud from the guy in Hawaii. might be what you're looking for without the hitchhikers

 

[TriggerFinger]

I dunno. I've never seen the benefits of live rock actually quantified in any scientific way. There are a quite a few experienced reefers who swear by live rock and give the same reasons you give (beneficial bacteria and hitch hikers). Yet I am not sure what these beneficial bacterias are and what additional benefits you get from them beyond what you would get with dry rock, bottled bacteria and bacteria from tank additions would give you over time. The supposed benefits seem to always involve a lot of hand waving as opposed to detailed, itemized lists of exactly what the benefits are and how these benefits were quantified.

I will say though that hobbyists from decades past have been plagued with a lot of the same issues we see today with dry rock - cyano, dinos and nuissance algae. These things did not just start appearing when hobbyists started using live rock. Live rock, either collected from the wild or aqua cultured, are not the silver bullet for avoiding these issues. Anybody that tells you that live rock will ensure that you don't have these issues... I would take that stuff with a grain of salt. As for hitch hikers, yeah, you will get them. Some good. Others, not so much.

To me, the question comes down to, what problem are you trying to solve by introducing live rock? I think you should solve a problem with a solution, not figure out what problems that you could solve simply because you want live rock.

We are trying to recreate a thriving ocean environment. A single liter of seawater has about one billion bacteria and 10 billion viruses. A 16oz bottle of nitrifying bacteria has a few.

 

[adobo]

We are trying to recreate a thriving ocean environment. A single liter of seawater has about one billion bacteria and 10 billion viruses. A 16oz bottle of nitrifying bacteria has a few.

In that case, we are failing miserably in more ways that just how much bacteria we have in our tanks. We are failing in light, flow, natural plankton, levels of trace elements, variety of organisms (not just bacteria) present, spacing between organisms, pH, etc.

If the silver bullet is in the amount and diversity of bacteria, wouldn't it be simpler just to get a liter of seawater?

 

[JaykS]

I've been following multiple threads lately talking about using aquacultured live rock rather than dry rock. In my time reefing, I've used live rock from established tanks and dry rock that I cleaned myself with muriatic acid to avoid pests. Lately though, I've been thinking about getting some aquacultured live rock as I've been reading about a lot of the reviews and benefits of it. The biodiversity is amazing with lots of great and surprising hitchhikers and added maturity of the rock boosts beneficial bacteria and fauna in the reef tank. The cons (as I understand it) are potential nasty hitchhikers.

So I'm wondering how many of you use aquacultured live rock, and what has been your take on the risks?

Also, if someone like me (since I have a tank where I used dry rock initially) were to add a bit of live rock to my tank for some more biodiversity, how much would I need to add?

Lastly, what's the process you would use if adding live rock to your already existing system? What would quarantine/checking it look like before putting it in the DT?

Photo by @KenO

I would say it is a great idea to do. As humblefish has mentioned recently, we may be lacking biodiversity in our tanks due to going dry rock route. The older days of reef tanks were all live rock from the ocean and they didn't suffer ugly phases like we do today, dinos for example.

I started my tank with dry rock, came across humblefish post about biodiversity, then bought Fiji live rock from a store here in Canada, they had it under lighting and in tanks, It was a little bit more then double what I had in dry rock (sitting in my sump now). I believe because of this move alone, I was able to skip the ugly phase completely. I had diatoms from red sea silica content and now I'm 2.5 months into my tank, my corals are all thriving and I'm fallow! I have 12 Acros, 10 of which are wild (All great PE, encrusting on plugs, coloring up more than purchased color) 1 Monti (growing), 1 Acan (Growing), 1 Favia (Growing) and a green goniopora (only half extended, it's in too much flow, im trying to find its spot sigh). and I have coralline growing on my rocks and plugs. The tank has been stable since 1 month and I attribute that all to the live rock.

So to answer the question in my experience, 100% aquacultured live rock is a fantastic idea, even if its mixed with dry rock. I scaped my DT with dry and put all the live in the sump. I get the esthetics of a nice dry rock aquascape while the functionality of live rock in the sump

 

[LRT]

In that case, we are failing miserably in more ways that just how much bacteria we have in our tanks. We are failing in light, flow, natural plankton, levels of trace elements, variety of organisms (not just bacteria) present, spacing between organisms, pH, etc.

If the silver bullet is in the amount and diversity of bacteria, wouldn't it be simpler just to get a liter of seawater?

Fair assessment and understand exactly where your coming from. But is that not what we are trying to accomplish in our reefs? As close to natural ecosystem that we can possibly create?
I'm saying if I could I would totally open a hole in my ceiling and let the sun grow my corals, pump sea water from the ocean so u didn't have to mix water and salt, or dose anything to try and mimmick the water of the sea. Etc.
Is live rock not the best source for what we are trying to achieve in this deduction?

 

[SMSREEF]

Adding live rock and some live sand (from the ocean not a bag from store) really did wonders for my tank. I wasted so much money on bottles of bacteria thinking it would help establish a better biome, but it didn’t.

I stated my tank with dry Marco rock because I wanted to create a cool structure. But I had nothing but problems. Dino’s and the chrysophyte.

I bought the live stuff that I wanted to add and quarantined with an AI prime so the coralline did not die. After adding the live to my tank, it looks amazing and no more problems with crazy microbes.

 

[Tl02022020]

I recently got KP aquatics rock (shipped damp, not in water) and it had a ton of crabs, sponges, worms, a couple urchins. Opening a box of rock from an ocean 3000 miles away was so much fun!! You have no idea what all will be in there. I did cycle the rock since I didnt go for the shipped in water option, and I’m very happy with it.

 

[adobo]

But is that not what we are trying to accomplish in our reefs? As close to natural ecosystem that we can possibly create?

I have to confess, I was parrotting what somebody else said in my previous reply. I think the entirety of his post is an appropriate reply to your question:

... your reef likely fails to mimic "natural" in all sorts of critical ways (light, flow, natural plankton, levels of trace elements, variety of organisms present, spacing between organisms, pH, etc.), so fixing one aspect at a natural level may be good, but is not necessarily even best.

The "natural environment" in my backyard is currently undergoing a drought and the native plants are wilting. Is that "optimal" for them?

Corals on a coral reef get wiped out when all sorts of natural events strike, from hurricanes to heat waves. Having those happen is not necessarily optimal for any given coral.

So I think it is certainly fair to say that 6-7 dKH is a fine level, and that anything else is experimental, but over the decades, hobbyists and scientists have shown experimentally that higher alk causes different effects that some hobbyists may consider desirable. Anything more than that is a philosophical discussion, not a scientific one (IMO).

I also want to point out that the various animals we keep in our tanks come from environments that are not identical. For example, yellow tangs come from Hawaii whereas purple tangs come from the Red Sea. Different temp and salinity levels. Some of our corals come from Fiji, others from Indonesia, and yet other from the Carribean. Aside from differences in geography, our animals come from different depths in the reef. So what is "natural" to one animal might be unusual for another.

To be clear, I am not against live rock. I am not for it either. I am ambivelant. I am simply saying that whenever see someone contemplating adding live rock to their reef, I am always curious to find out what problem they are trying to solve. I've read plenty of "experts" say that live rock is superior to dead rock. It might be so but I haven't myself seen anyone itemize the reasons why. And how they came to quantify these reasons. I have seen plenty of people of say "tanks with live rock don't have cyano, they don't have dinos". I find those questions highly questionable. Hobbyists have been plagued by cyano and dinos long before live rock became hard to come by.