Algae barn correct with pod numbers?

Alexreefer · Mar 15, 2019

@AlgaeBarn recently reef nutrition posted a video of how they count their pods and their setups.
I have ordered from both companies and reef nutrition always has more pods in a bottle than yours. How are you sure you have 3000+ tig pods in a jar. I have seeded my tank with three jars of tig pods and a jar of 5280 pods over 4 months ago and dosing phyto every other day. (I culture my own phyto)
I have only a yellow tang, 8-month-old clownfish and cardinal. How come there are no pods anywhere I check at night with a flashlight nothing. Dosed tigger pods from reef nutrition in my refugium which has a wrasse in timeout and they are everywhere! How can this be? I read somewhere that you have moved and are doing *100 pods in each container? is this true?

AlgaeBarn · Mar 15, 2019

Alexreefer said:
@AlgaeBarn recently reef nutrition posted a video of how they count their pods and their setups.
I have ordered from both companies and reef nutrition always has more pods in a bottle than yours. How are you sure you have 3000+ tig pods in a jar. I have seeded my tank with three jars of tig pods and a jar of 5280 pods over 4 months ago and dosing phyto every other day. (I culture my own phyto)
I have only a yellow tang, 8-month-old clownfish and cardinal. How come there are no pods anywhere I check at night with a flashlight nothing. Dosed tigger pods from reef nutrition in my refugium which has a wrasse in timeout and they are everywhere! How can this be? I read somewhere that you have moved and are doing *100 pods in each container? is this true?

Hi Alex,

Great question, but there is a lot to unwrap here.

With regards to count methodology:

We posted our count methodology back on Sept 24th, 2015 (https://www.algaebarn.com/blog/white-papers/determining-an-overall-count-for-your-copepods/). If you follow it through, the video that reef nutrition posted follows that methodology VERY similar. I'm not saying we invented how to do pod counts, it's a relatively standard thing (only so many ways to perform counts), but we have been very transparent with our methodology. From my understanding, we were the first aquarium facing company to post how to do counts publicly.

With regards to apparent differences:

From my understanding, reef nutrition only adds adult copepods into their products. We have had better success with a blend of life stages for seeding (lifespan on certain copepods once they reach adult isnt very long), it's not as ascetically pleasing, but we found it works better. I'm sure reef nutrition would argue otherwise. We include everything from 50 microns to 2000 microns. 50 microns is really hard to see, you're going to need a microscope.
Phytoplankton isn't just phytoplankton. I assume you are culturing nannochloropsis? If you try to culture copepods with just nannochloropsis, you tend to get very lackluster results. It has a very hard cell wall that doesn't get digested well in copepod guts. If you are successful, you will not get many generations out of them.
Every tank is different, I am not sure why you have not seen copepods in your tank after seeding. Are you running heavy filtration (filter socks/roller mats)? You are more than welcome to reach out to our support team and request help there.
How long after you dosed tigger pods to your refugium did you see them in the tank? A Day? Week? Months?
- I am confused as to your statement/question, as our Tig Pods are the same species (Tigriopus californicus) as Tigger pods.

Can you link me to where you read the *100 pods in each container? This is not true. We exceed our stated count when we bottle the pods up. We take random samples and run counts.

Alexreefer · Mar 15, 2019

AlgaeBarn said:
Hi Alex,

Great question, but there is a lot to unwrap here.

With regards to count methodology:

We posted our count methodology back on Sept 24th, 2015 (https://www.algaebarn.com/blog/white-papers/determining-an-overall-count-for-your-copepods/). If you follow it through, the video that reef nutrition posted follows that methodology VERY similar. I'm not saying we invented how to do pod counts, it's a relatively standard thing (only so many ways to perform counts), but we have been very transparent with our methodology. From my understanding, we were the first aquarium facing company to post how to do counts publicly.

With regards to apparent differences:

From my understanding, reef nutrition only adds adult copepods into their products. We have had better success with a blend of life stages for seeding (lifespan on certain copepods once they reach adult isnt very long), it's not as ascetically pleasing, but we found it works better. I'm sure reef nutrition would argue otherwise. We include everything from 50 microns to 2000 microns. 50 microns is really hard to see, you're going to need a microscope.

Phytoplankton isn't just phytoplankton. I assume you are culturing nannochloropsis? If you try to culture copepods with just nannochloropsis, you tend to get very lackluster results. It has a very hard cell wall that doesn't get digested well in copepod guts. If you are successful, you will not get many generations out of them.

Every tank is different, I am not sure why you have not seen copepods in your tank after seeding. Are you running heavy filtration (filter socks/roller mats)? You are more than welcome to reach out to our support team and request help there.

How long after you dosed tigger pods to your refugium did you see them in the tank? A Day? Week? Months?

I am confused as to your statement/question, as our Tig Pods are the same species (Tigriopus californicus) as Tigger pods.

Can you link me to where you read the *100 pods in each container? This is not true. We exceed our stated count when we bottle the pods up. We take random samples and run counts.

What I meant is that you stated you guys started adding times 100 more pods in your jars.
reef nutritions tigger pods showed after a week and a half. Had a huge explosion.
I run filter socks then a skimmer. after goes to refugium and up the return pump connected to a uv sterilizer

WallysWorld · Mar 15, 2019

Lloyd Williams · Mar 15, 2019

AlgaeBarn · Mar 15, 2019

Alexreefer said:
What I meant is that you stated you guys started adding times 100 more pods in your jars.
reef nutritions tigger pods showed after a week and a half. Had a huge explosion.
I run filter socks then a skimmer. after goes to refugium and up the return pump connected to a uv sterilizer

Ah! We changed ownership end of May 2018, moved facilities, changed some employees, and we have been going through a 100x scale of copepods and phytoplankton. We are finishing the scale (its been a heck of a ride!) and we have been doing a greater portion of adult pods in our products. If people simply want more adult pods (even though we feel the benefit isn't as great), we are more than willing to provide that.

Our customers usually see a large bloom after a few weeks, and I don't know why this didn't happen in your tank. Even though its from months ago, feel free to file a claim and we will get a complementary replacement out for you.

Brad Miller · Mar 15, 2019

I always pictured a lot of little people counting a lot of little copepods ;Happy

Hermie · Mar 15, 2019

Alexreefer said:
@AlgaeBarn recently reef nutrition posted a video of how they count their pods and their setups.
I have ordered from both companies and reef nutrition always has more pods in a bottle than yours. How are you sure you have 3000+ tig pods in a jar. I have seeded my tank with three jars of tig pods and a jar of 5280 pods over 4 months ago and dosing phyto every other day. (I culture my own phyto)
I have only a yellow tang, 8-month-old clownfish and cardinal. How come there are no pods anywhere I check at night with a flashlight nothing. Dosed tigger pods from reef nutrition in my refugium which has a wrasse in timeout and they are everywhere! How can this be? I read somewhere that you have moved and are doing *100 pods in each container? is this true?

Hey dood, one huge thing that helped my tank explode with pods... take out your filter sock and any mechanical filtration that isn't large pore or coarse. You may not like this suggestion, which is how I felt when I first considered it, but after I removed filter floss and a 100 micron pad from my sump, I now have literally tigger pods exploding in the tank. And mind you, this was after I seeded it with APOC pods. I never seeded the tank with tigger pods, although I did put some chaeto in that may have had tigger pod eggs hatch (there was no visible life on the chaeto at the time). Nontheless, removing the fine/very fine mechanical filtration that a filter sock produces helped my tank tremendously. You could put the sock in some times or perhaps divert the drain so only have the water goes into the sock, but that will severely limit your copepod population to leave it as is

Alexreefer · Mar 15, 2019

Thank you. @AlgaeBarn and @NotASpammerDude I will try and remove my socks when I order from algaebarn again and hope to see some improvements!!! Also while you are here what macroalgae would be good for my refugium (not cheato already have that) something like orgo?

AlgaeBarn · Mar 15, 2019

Brad Miller said:
I always pictured a lot of little people counting a lot of little copepods ;Happy

Our lawyers shut down our pod counting sweat shop...

Alexreefer said:
Thank you. @AlgaeBarn and @NotASpammerDude I will try and remove my socks when I order from algaebarn again and hope to see some improvements!!! Also while you are here what macroalgae would be good for my refugium (not cheato already have that) something like orgo?

Sure thing. I do agree with removing the filter socks. We do recommend a minimum of 2 days without filter socks after adding the pods (but running sockless is better!). For the fuge, I would recommend red ogo (tang favorite) or sea lettuce (tangs like to nibble on it). Both grow fast, although sea lettuce grows very very fast, and it works great for housing copepods.

Alexreefer · Mar 15, 2019

AlgaeBarn said:
Our lawyers shut down our pod counting sweat shop...

Sure thing. I do agree with removing the filter socks. We do recommend a minimum of 2 days without filter socks after adding the pods (but running sockless is better!). For the fuge, I would recommend red ogo (tang favorite) or sea lettuce (tangs like to nibble on it). Both grow fast, although sea lettuce grows very very fast, and it works great for housing copepods.

Great thanks. Just sent out my claim(via email) so we will see. I will keep you posted and hope my tank will have pods The only reason I run sock is to stop the noise of the water from the overflow but I can live with it if its for the pod's life

JoshH · Mar 15, 2019

Alexreefer said:
Great thanks. Just sent out my claim(via email) so we will see. I will keep you posted and hope my tank will have pods The only reason I run sock is to stop the noise of the water from the overflow but I can live with it if its for the pod's life

What type of overflow setup do you have? There are MANY other ways of silencing an overflow other than socks.

I am curious as to whether or not your UV Sterilizer is having an effect on your pod population with how it's plumbed in. What GPH are you putting through it? Maybe @AlgaeBarn can chime in on whether or not this can effect populations in the DT.

Alexreefer · Mar 15, 2019

Durso. The one that came with the aqueon tank. 150 gph going through a 17 watt uv.
What im saying is as the water come out of the tube it splashes and makes alot of noise as it falls down where the socks should be.

JoshH · Mar 15, 2019

Alexreefer said:
Durso. The one that came with the aqueon tank. 150 gph going through a 17 watt uv.
What im saying is as the water come out of the tube it splashes and makes alot of noise as it falls down where the socks should be.

What type of sump do you have?

Alexreefer · Mar 15, 2019

aqeoun proflex model 2

JoshH · Mar 15, 2019

Alexreefer said:
aqeoun proflex model 2

You could modify the plumbing slightly so instead of the straight drop into where the current drain runs in to, it runs through two 90 elbows then straight down where one of your filter socks are currently, putting it below the waterline in the sump which should solve the noise issue.

I'll try and dig around but I remember another reefer having the same issue as you. Not sure how it turned out but I'll look back and see if I can find it.

Alexreefer · Mar 15, 2019

This is my sump. You can see the water flows into a cylinder which is underwater. then flows up and into the socks when i remove the sock it falls about halfway down and makes loud splashing sounds. I can lift the water level in the filter sock chamber to see if it reduces the sound.