Algae issues? Why dont more people use algae scrubbers?

[Reefering1]

^^ appeal to authority. Just because someone is well known doesn't make them right lol. Happy to discuss data

I see your point, and agree with it in most cases. But I've only been reefing about 10 years. I can make a case on both sides of this discussion based on observations of my own tank. I can see both sides. I had a packed refugium, for years, but that didn't stop there carpet of gha in the display. I fiddled with flow, maintenance practices etc to no avail. , by about year 3 I realized that if I leave the gha on back glass and only cleaned rocks/ sand, it would mainly grow there. Eventually I pulled handfuls off the glass and put it in the refugium and it stopped growing on the glass also. I think/ thought the same thing, that giving it a place stops it elsewhere. And it does seem that way still. On the other hand, after years of a clean display, I had to remove a couple rocks(to remove a overgrown coral) ; this exposed clean white rock to light... guess what happened..(?) All the uglies showed up,one after the next(gha,cyano, dino) on that bare rock. I did nothing about it and it went away in a few months. Why? If the refugium fixed it to begin with, why did it show up? Why did it go away without any changes? I'm no scientist, so my best understanding of what is happening is going to come from those who are scientists, those who are much more experienced than me- who are have nothing to gain from me, nothing to sell; those who just try to share the knowledge. Call it lazy, I call it smart to not ignore these select few. I have nothing against ats, it is a powerful tool. It is not a new idea, but if it is THE solution, why do algea problems still exist?

 

[MnFish1]

When people post about algae issues, most suggestions are to get a clean-up crew (two orders from reefcleaners didn't help me), manual removal (easier said than done and it's not going to remove all of the algae plus it'll probably just grow back), or chemicals (I tried Vibrant and it didn't work, and who really wants to add chemicals anyway?), or a blackout (two blackouts temporarily worked for me, but I doubt my fish/corals enjoyed them very much and waiting those 3 days without really knowing whats going on kinda sucked) There are other suggestions but I think these are the top ones.
Enter an algae scrubber. I put a DIY algae scrubber in my sump about 2 months ago, and my tank is virtually algae free with no signs of it reappearing. My nutrients are good (Nitrates @ 1.0-2.5; Phosphates @ 0.05-0.08). I have a heavily stocked tank and I keep my fish well fed.
It seems that most people that have an algae scrubber swear by them, so why are they not used more?
Is it the cost? Store bought ones are a huge expense, especially not seeing the results with your own eyes. My DIY scrubber probably cost less than $80 and it is probably the best the best thing I have done with my tank

Space issues

 

[Mikeltee]

I agree and found the maintenance difficult comments to not be my experience. I know everyone's experience can be different. I have two different scrubbers now and find them both quick to harvest and put back into service.

It's probably about 5 minutes of my time once a week. From turning off the pump, disconnecting the feed line, dunk the screen in the sump a few times, taking the scrubber to a sink , removing the algae, then put it all back together and turn the pump back on.

Why do you dunk? Are you saving pods? While I don't intend to get one as I think a skimmer should be enough, I reconsidered to those that heavily feed and don't have much live rock. Watching several Santa Monica videos, it seems as if pods cause an issue.

 

[mizimmer90]

I see your point, and agree with it in most cases. But I've only been reefing about 10 years. I can make a case on both sides of this discussion based on observations of my own tank. I can see both sides. I had a packed refugium, for years, but that didn't stop there carpet of gha in the display. I fiddled with flow, maintenance practices etc to no avail. , by about year 3 I realized that if I leave the gha on back glass and only cleaned rocks/ sand, it would mainly grow there. Eventually I pulled handfuls off the glass and put it in the refugium and it stopped growing on the glass also. I think/ thought the same thing, that giving it a place stops it elsewhere. And it does seem that way still. On the other hand, after years of a clean display, I had to remove a couple rocks(to remove a overgrown coral) ; this exposed clean white rock to light... guess what happened..(?) All the uglies showed up,one after the next(gha,cyano, dino) on that bare rock. I did nothing about it and it went away in a few months. Why? If the refugium fixed it to begin with, why did it show up? Why did it go away without any changes? I'm no scientist, so my best understanding of what is happening is going to come from those who are scientists, those who are much more experienced than me- who are have nothing to gain from me, nothing to sell; those who just try to share the knowledge. Call it lazy, I call it smart to not ignore these select few. I have nothing against ats, it is a powerful tool. It is not a new idea, but if it is THE solution, why do algea problems still exist?

I agree with all of this!

My position is actually agnostic to how an ATS performs in practice (because there are so many variables in play in anyones system, so blanket statements cannot be made) and I'll leave it to experienced reefers like yourself to comment on their setup, size, and usefulness in an aquarium!

 

[Thales]

I agree with all of this!

My position is actually agnostic to how an ATS performs in practice (because there are so many variables in play in anyones system, so blanket statements cannot be made) and I'll leave it to experienced reefers like yourself to comment on their setup, size, and usefulness in an aquarium!

This is why we are talking past each other. Sweet. I thought I was going crazy

 

[jason2459]

Why do you dunk? Are you saving pods? While I don't intend to get one as I think a skimmer should be enough, I reconsidered to those that heavily feed and don't have much live rock. Watching several Santa Monica videos, it seems as if pods cause an issue.

Yes to "shake" off some hitchhiking life. Like various types of pods. Many are great and should not cause any issues at all.

 

[mizimmer90]

This is why we are talking past each other. Sweet. I thought I was going crazy

Haha I tried very carefully to indicate that my issues were with the statements that 1) algae grown at one location can't have an affect on algae at another, and 2) that if corals can grow there, so can algae. Both are false. However, that doesn't mean ATS will work forever and always (or that it's even a good idea to have one). It seems to be effective in many instances (I believe the testimonies in this thread), and perhaps not in others (depends on how its used, what your goals are for a tank, other husbandry practices, etc.).

Does this make sense with my discussion on comparative advantages, dynamic systems, and how many variables are at play? Can we agree on this?

 

[Hot2na]

Then you should know blues didn’t dominate the landscape to simply “fight algae” like you claimed

Get an ATS , ditch the windex look ..you might be a happier person

 

[Reefering1]

I agree with all of this!

My position is actually agnostic to how an ATS performs in practice (because there are so many variables in play in anyones system, so blanket statements cannot be made) and I'll leave it to experienced reefers like yourself to comment on their setup, size, and usefulness in an aquarium!

To be clear, in this particular group, I would not group myself with their level of experience. Not yet anyways. I have a decent handle on alot but still working on the next level of success. Just a regular guy that takes the long hard way. Learning in the process(almost there!)

 

[Mikeltee]

Yes to "shake" off some hitchhiking life. Like various types of pods. Many are great and should not cause any issues at all.

His videos are informative. I learned that bleaching and acid bathing liverock does not remove nutrients. I'm suffering from that now. Im over 2.0 and 70. It's been 2 months and the skimmer and water changes aren't doing much. Logic dictates that I'll need algae blooms to bring them down. I wish I could rent one of these things!

Can you reduce lighting to tune in its needs? If so, what lighting schedule can you get away with? Is there a minimum amount of light needed per day to be effective?

 

[Thales]

Haha I tried very carefully to indicate that my issues were with the statements that 1) algae grown at one location can't have an affect on algae at another, and 2) that if corals can grow there, so can algae. Both are false. However, that doesn't mean ATS will work forever and always (or that it's even a good idea to have one). It seems to be effective in many instances (I believe the testimonies in this thread), and perhaps not in others (depends on how its used, what your goals are for a tank, other husbandry practices, etc.).

Does this make sense with my discussion on comparative advantages, dynamic systems, and how many variables are at play? Can we agree on this?

We agree on a lot. I have been doing the discussion you are having for 15 years or so (or however long ATS has been around), and for me most of what you are saying is a given.
I am more interested in practical/useful/actional discussion which is why I was looking clarification about which blue lights and which coral you mentioned, and is where my comments are coming from.
FWIW, I believe the testimonies in this thread (though they prolly should be unpacked more to see if they are compelling or not), but I also believe the ineffective testomonies in this thread (and in other places).

 

[jason2459]

Post below

 

[Reefering1]

We agree on a lot. I have been doing the discussion you are having for 15 years or so (or however long ATS has been around), and for me most of what you are saying is a given.
I am more interested in practical/useful/actional discussion which is why I was looking clarification about which blue lights and which coral you mentioned, and is where my comments are coming from.
FWIW, I believe the testimonies in this thread (though they prolly should be unpacked more to see if they are compelling or not), but I also believe the ineffective testomonies in this thread (and in other places).

So, without more information, what would you think is happening in these ats success stories? Tank maturity/ competition, better husbandry, bacteria, what?

 

[a.t.t.r]

Because this gen of reefers love chemicals and instant satisfaction.

 

[VintageReefer]

His videos are informative. I learned that bleaching and acid bathing liverock does not remove nutrients. I'm suffering from that now. Im over 2.0 and 70. It's been 2 months and the skimmer and water changes aren't doing much. Logic dictates that I'll need algae blooms to bring them down. I wish I could rent one of these things!

Can you reduce lighting to tune in its needs? If so, what lighting schedule can you get away with? Is there a minimum amount of light needed per day to be effective?

Yea there is a window for success and scrubbers can be turned. For me I find 16-19 hours a day of led makes successful growth. But 18 hours a day is the sweet spot for my numbers and tank the way I like it.

If I wanted my nutrients a little higher I could reduce my scrubber leds 1-2 hours

You kinda have to go by the growth on the scrubber and adjust from there. Too much light and the algae is yellowish or clear. If the algae is dark colored then you need more light

 

[VintageReefer]

A lot of times when people have scrubbers, without the background knowledge on them, and they say they are growing algae but “aren’t working” they then post pics of the scrubber algae and it’s very very dark colored. The issue here is the led intensity is not enough, or they aren’t running the leds enough hours.

Or they post pale or yellowish algae from the scrubber and then the inverse is true.

Rather than troubleshoot and fine tune the scrubber, they say the scrubber didn’t work for them.

However if the algae is bright green and healthy and not reducing display algae, the scrubber is undersized for their level of feeding combined with the amount of bound phosphates in their rock. The scrubber reduces phosphates - the source is feeding + live rock because it acts like a sponge

Scrubbers need to be sized properly for the situation just like any other piece of equipment

 

[VintageReefer]

I know I am not being accused of this and hopefully my user name implies I am not from the “current generation” of younger reefers, but I am against (generally) chemicals and instant satisfaction

I had a scrubber break and algae outbreak as a result. I fixed the scrubber and waited patiently 2 months for my issues to self resolve and then I proceeded to add coral frags slowly and let them grow out

Nothing good comes fast in this hobby. Patience is key!

 

[ScubaSkeets]

No way do I think I am more knowledgeable than the next person when it comes to reefing..I've only been doing it for 3 years... but to be honest, after seeing how SEEMINGLY effective it was in my tank (so far), I did have a small eureka moment, even though I knew that these have been around for a while.
I was excited. I told myself, "this thing is working great. It seems so simple. I gotta ask why other people aren't using it. Maybe the "fix" has been here all this time, but for whatever reason, it just didn't catch on."

Obviously, that isn't the case. Some of us have had success with it, some of us have not. Some of us are successful using other methods for algae control. Some of us are not successful using those same methods. I certainly don't think ya'll are a bunch of idiots for not agreeing with me.

 

[rtparty]

Get an ATS , ditch the windex look ..you might be a happier person

Have one, don’t run Windex. Thanks boomer

 

[jason2459]

His videos are informative. I learned that bleaching and acid bathing liverock does not remove nutrients. I'm suffering from that now. Im over 2.0 and 70. It's been 2 months and the skimmer and water changes aren't doing much. Logic dictates that I'll need algae blooms to bring them down. I wish I could rent one of these things!

Can you reduce lighting to tune in its needs? If so, what lighting schedule can you get away with? Is there a minimum amount of light needed per day to be effective?

I have no comment on Santa Monica.

Yes, I can adjust the intensity and duration for both scrubbers I have. I currently have them both running for 20 hours. 4 hours off each staggered between the two.

The WSR and Turbo's have different spectrums of light and both are doing very well. They are both pulling 23watts each if that means anything.