alibaba led bars vs high end led bars

[minus9]

I’m listening to the new reefbum video right now. They talk a bit about uv and the benefits aren’t really proven yet. Would like to know peoples opinion. I’m veering on the side of it doesn’t really matter much. Too many good tanks without it.
Apparently Chris at aci switched to leds and had a problem with his torch coral. He claims it had something to do with not enough uv to kill some black algae or whatever. Maybe it’s true or maybe it’s just from moving the coral to a new lighting system and it not liking it.
Either way I’m just interested in the best lighting options.

That’s why I’m going back to halides with LED bars. I’m all about hybrid approaches in the hobby.

 

[oreo54]

I'd use separate drivers on the same 0-10V dimmer. A larger driver powering two bars turns into a cluster if one of the bars dies. It'll get too much current (voltage in a parallel circuit remains constant, but current divides). Your new driver would be sized for the two-bar load. If one bar is disconnected, the single bar gets all the juice.

(Note I'm pretty sure you know this soo for others)
You can add a fuse on each bar rated at greater than 1/2 the constant current output.
That 1/2 is for 2 bars with new 2x current driver.

2 bars that want 500mA each.. 1A constant current driver and 2 say 750mA fast blow fuses.
Blown fuse is the good bar btw.

>1/3 for 3 bars ect..
More bars the less worry about 1 dying.
Say you ran 10 bars each using 500mA of current.You need a 5A constant current driver driver.
5/10 = .5A each
One dies you get 5A spread to 9 bars. 550mA/bar
2 bars die 625mA each for the rest..(8 x .625 = 5A)
Should be within tolerance.
Of course if you use like 550mA fuses .. 9 will blow..
All bars wired in parallel to the power supply of course.
Fuses in line of course.
(NEED to add the "gotcha" here.. not all strings behave the same way. Sharing current directly from the driver
can cause bar output anomalies, i.e some dimmer than others due to not "perfectly" dividing the current..
thus the current balancing circuits)



Pretty "hacky" way of doing it though.

Point is it isn't straightforward w/ constant current type bars.. It is w/ constant voltage types though.
No company would do this obviously.

Easier to just mount a Meanwell Ldd-H to each bar and add a DC constant voltage power supply.
Problem is you now are stuck w/ 5V PWM not an "apex direct" dim channel.
There are 10v analog to 5V pwm converter boards of course.


There are current balancing circuits to replace fuses that make this much more elegant.

https://www.st.com/resource/en/technical_note/tn0026-led-balancing-circuits-stmicroelectronics.pdf

https://www.eeweb.com/balancing-led-current-in-parallel-string/

Need one that also protects the remaining bars, sharing and protection are 2 different things.
Believe even an IC that does it as well.

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm3466.pdf?ts=1649966933714&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252F

Point is the usual.. Simple question, complicated answer.

 

[fishmonkey]

That’s why I’m going back to halides with LED bars. I’m all about hybrid approaches in the hobby.

Yea I considered it but I don’t want to worry about heat and replacing bulbs. Mainly the cost, future availability, and disposal.

 

[oreo54]

Correction ....Depending on the required voltage of a bar finding a dc/dc driver may be difficult.
Ldd max is about 53 volts.

 

[telegraham]

I might be mistaken but I don’t think any of those bars have true uv. Apparently the only ones that have it at any considerable level are the Mitras according to telegraham. Even then I think he said turbidity and what not might effect the results

Mitras, Kessil, and Red Sea all have UV, and unless I'm mistaken, they all have only a single UV spectrum. The appreciable amount of UV, when compared to MH, is minimal.

My UV focus has been on the accuracy of marketing, and not the value of UV.

 

[telegraham]

Yeah, uv diodes are expensive and usually don't last long.

GHL and Kessil would beg to differ the UV diode longevity point. I view that as a marketing point put forth by those who don't want to take the time to engineer the fixture with proper cooling and power management. That, and the Mitras 7206, with UV, is less expensive than some of the same wattage class counterparts.

 

[telegraham]

(Note I'm pretty sure you know this soo for others)
You can add a fuse on each bar rated at greater than 1/2 the constant current output.
That 1/2 is for 2 bars with new 2x current driver.

Fair point, but I like simple. I'd just keep the OEM bricks.

 

[telegraham]

Random question. Am considering lighting my whole tank with quanta bars but now the whole uv rabbit hole has grabbed my attention. I’m planning on getting a 120g 48x24x24 acropora tank.

I have a Sky and several various gen XR30s that could be used to light the 90ish cube that will replace my nine years running 45 cube, but I'm going to light with Quanta Pro only.

 

[minus9]

I have a Sky and several various gen XR30s that could be used to light the 90ish cube that will replace my nine years running 45 cube, but I'm going to light with Quanta Pro only.

Nice! I would like to see that, what mix of bars are you planning?

 

[Bpb]

I’m more interested in the inclusion of 760nm IR diodes Orphek is doing. I think this is likely more beneficial in imitating the function of metal halides than the uv side. As you heard on the recent reef bum interview with tulio and rich, the obsession with uv is probably a bit over done. They spelled out what I’ve personally speculated in the fact that these super shallow corals exposed to massive amounts of uv and open air are more surviving than thriving, relative to those found a tad bit deeper that never get exposed to air during low tide.

Does anyone know the lifespan of IR diodes? Do they tend to burn lenses also? Why haven’t some of the other light merchants began including them in the mix? That’s the one thing that is kind of pushing Orphek ahead of the quanta and Ali express bars. The IR inclusion. I don’t care as much about the UV side.

 

[minus9]

GHL and Kessil would beg to differ the UV diode longevity point. I view that as a marketing point put forth by those who don't want to take the time to engineer the fixture with proper cooling and power management. That, and the Mitras 7206, with UV, is less expensive than some of the same wattage class counterparts.

Maybe I was thinking of the UVB range, but again, it may not be necessary or overrated? I know my Kessil's have a good amount of the upper range of UVA and violet, along with Mitras, which I think are underrated fixtures.

 

[fishmonkey]

I have a Sky and several various gen XR30s that could be used to light the 90ish cube that will replace my nine years running 45 cube, but I'm going to light with Quanta Pro only.

Ima go all quanta pro like originally planned

 

[Lousybreed]

Ima go all quanta pro like originally planned

Let’s go!!!!

 

[Shooter6]

Kessil is. I think ecotech as well. I’d expect most would be. At a minimum, I’d be less concerned with those made by reputable companies than made in China with no USA or European company overseeing the operation of what’s being built.

BRS did a video on black box lights. One of the points they made was the cheap parts and lacking UL Approval. Not wanting to save a few bucks yet risk an issues down the road.

Ul listed is a paid by manufacturer "certification " if you look up ul certification on here or Google you will be amazed by just how little that really means!

 

[oreo54]

I’m more interested in the inclusion of 760nm IR diodes Orphek is doing. I think this is likely more beneficial in imitating the function of metal halides than the uv side. As you heard on the recent reef bum interview with tulio and rich, the obsession with uv is probably a bit over done. They spelled out what I’ve personally speculated in the fact that these super shallow corals exposed to massive amounts of uv and open air are more surviving than thriving, relative to those found a tad bit deeper that ne

Does anyone know the lifespan of IR diodes? Do they tend to burn lenses also? Why haven’t some of the other light merchants began including them in the mix? That’s the one thing that is kind of pushing Orphek ahead of the quanta and Ali express bars. The IR inclusion. I don’t care as much about the UV side.

Lens burning is mostly due to the high energy photons.
Once your into the cyan to ir range the ind.energy in each photon normally isn't enough to brown plastics (actually it's more burning impurities in the plastics.)
Of course one can concentrate a wavelength.
Think laser ....so even " low energy" photons have a kick.

As to lifespan.. reds and ir are built on the same " chassie" so don't expect a lot of difference in performance.
No guarantee

 

[oreo54]

Ul listed is a paid by manufacturer "certification " if you look up ul certification on here or Google you will be amazed by just how little that really means!

Beats CE which is "self policing"..
Current Ecotechs are CE at best.

Most CE-marked products can be placed on the market subject only to an internal production control by the manufacturer (Module A; see Self-certification, below), with no independent check of the conformity of the product with EU legislation; ANEC has cautioned that, amongst other things, CE marking cannot be considered a "safety mark" for consumers.[7]

Really the UL IF available is usually power supply only anyways..

buy a light or the UL "directives"..

UL 1018 | UL Standards & Engagement | UL Standard

UL 1018 | UL Standards & Engagement | UL Standard | Edition 6 | Electric Aquarium Equipment | Published Date: April 29, 2011 | ANSI Approved: --

standardscatalog.ul.com

1.3 Aquarium equipment involving tungsten-halogen or high intensity discharge lamps shall comply with the additional applicable requirements specified in the ...

 

[fishmonkey]

Let’s go!!!!

Luca bars ftw

 

[Shooter6]

Lens burning is mostly due to the high energy photons.
Once your into the cyan to ir range the ind.energy in each photon normally isn't enough to brown plastics (actually it's more burning impurities in the plastics.)
Of course one can concentrate a wavelength.
Think laser ....so even " low energy" photons have a kick.

As to lifespan.. reds and ir are built on the same " chassie" so don't expect a lot of difference in performance.
No guarantee

380nm will burn the plastic lenses or the clear plastic shield. Ive had this happen myself. On my previous light.

Now a question I have since I've never used them, but I understand the ai prime have an issue with burning lenses. I've heard this in the past and also seen it mentioned on r2r the other day on one of the mh threads.

 

[oreo54]

380nm will burn the plastic lenses or the clear plastic shield. Ive had this happen myself. On my previous light.

Now a question I have since I've never used them, but I understand the ai prime have an issue with burning lenses. I've heard this in the past and also seen it mentioned on r2r the other day on one of the mh threads.

Yes, seems the plastic used in "some" ai's have a tendency to brown.
Black boxes are known for this too.

The photon flux in an led is really intense and the higher the energy levels blues/ violets compounds the issue.
Technically it is usually impurities in there plastics moreso than the plastic polymer that brown and of course now offer an absorption " target" to concentrate energy even more.
Next diodes can get hot enough to simply melt them.
There are papers explaining this including that some browning is actually reversible.
BUT just need to deal with reality atm.
Worst case is the on chip lens browning.
There are lists of chemicals that are a no no near a diode. If the silicone lens on the chip browns it is more than likely it used rhe wrong adhesives or is contaminated with something from the list.

Secondary lenses can be replaced.

Think Orphek now lists using glass over uv diodes.
Want to complicate the problem...many plastics don' t pass uv anyways.
The " exact" wavelength cutoff varies by type and thickness.

Its ALL complicated really.

Back to the ai' s ...an "issue" can only be defined by percentages
Certainly greater than 0.
I'd suspect that after 10 years ( and the diodes are still at like 70%) it might hit 100%

Your guess is as good as mine

 

[telegraham]

Kessil is. I think ecotech as well. I’d expect most would be. At a minimum, I’d be less concerned with those made by reputable companies than made in China with no USA or European company overseeing the operation of what’s being built.

BRS did a video on black box lights. One of the points they made was the cheap parts and lacking UL Approval. Not wanting to save a few bucks yet risk an issues down the road.

Check that data. Generally, you'll find the power supplies for Kessil, Ecotech, and the Sky (same as Ecotech) to be UL, but not the fixtures. The power supply drivers' OEM directly paid for UL, not the fixture manufacturers. The lack of UL is noted by BRS as a marketing tool.