Alkalinity Dosing. Is there a Preferred Schedule?

[AKL1950]

Looking for thoughts on the preferred dosing schedule for Alkalinity in a system with moderate to high consumption. Is there one? I see variations of dosing just at night and dosing evenly on a 24 hour schedule. I can see benefits to both, but which is better. Can one method reduce swings better than others?

 

[Jekyl]

Idea is to not have swings at all. If able to dial in a dosing system to keep things steady then that is the best option.

 

[DanyL]

Dosing 24/7 would result in less swings compared to dosing just at night.

Dosing just at night would raise the PH a bit, or a bit more if Sodium Catbonate/Hydroxide is being used, and even more so with Kalk - this is usually being done with kalk to keep the PH more stable between day and night.

Dosing different amounts at night/day would give you a more stable alk because at peak hour you get a lot more consumption compared to the rest of the day, and at night (unless you have a reversed-schedule frag tank) you’ll get the lowest consumption compared to the rest of the day.


All that being said - you only do these kind of optimizations for Alk stability when you have the consumption capacity to do so, and even then it’s not as necessary as some may believe.

For PH stability - it really depends how big of a swing you have, because IMO it needs to be radical enough to take action.

 

[AKL1950]

Idea is to not have swings at all. If able to dial in a dosing system to keep things steady then that is the best option.

Understand, but consumption is not straight line over a 24 hour period. How do you best match your dosing to the consumption. Do you just shoot for the happy medium so that the what seems enevitable daily .2 to .3 Alk swing brackets you dosing level.

 

[AKL1950]

Dosing 24/7 would result in less swings compared to dosing just at night.

Dosing just at night would raise the PH a bit, or a bit more if Sodium Catbonate/Hydroxide is being used, and even more so with Kalk - this is usually being done with kalk to keep the PH more stable between day and night.

Dosing different amounts at night/day would give you a more stable alk because at peak hour you get a lot more consumption compared to the rest of the day, and at night (unless you have a reversed-schedule frag tank) you’ll get the lowest consumption compared to the rest of the day.


All that being said - you only do these kind of optimizations for Alk stability when you have the consumption capacity to do so, and even then it’s not as necessary as some may believe.

For PH stability - it really depends how big of a swing you have, because IMO it needs to be radical enough to take action.

I like how you said that. Makes me feel that the best way is to find your consumption level and dose on a 24 hour schedule at that rate. You will see a slight drop during high consumption and a slight rise during low consumption. I also assume it will vary a bit depending on how stable your PH is.

 

[DanyL]

People often times overthink and over do things in this hobby, but not consider the fact that those who actually benefit from this kind of improvements are people with big tanks full of coral they’ve been handling for years, sometimes decades and had to fix a certain issue they’ve been dealing with along the way.

I’ve been in this hobby myself for 16 years, and yes I do have a 200 gal tank full of grown up colonies, and yes I did take into account consumption rates (and small PH swings more as a by product) and handled this by growing coral in my sump in a reverse light schedule to offset the difference.
But I also dose ~500ml of saturated Sodium Bicarbonate per day (24/7).
If I didn’t have something to offset the difference I would easily have over 1dKh swing between peak hour and night, which is well above the recommended range and will affect the corals.

On the other hand, I also have a separate frag tank without any “fancy stability tricks” where the consumption is around 130ml of saturated Sodium Bicarbonate per day, and I dose 24/7 without any noticeable swings that I need to worry about.

So it really is depended on your specific situation, and it’s better to not chase the numbers, but settle on an acceptable range, which in some extreme situations indeed may need an intervention.

There is another reason why I specifically advocate to use a 24/7 dosing schedule (like I do in both systems) - and it’s more about managing consumption rates.
A closed system like we all keep is very dynamic, things change and we always need to adjust.
When you have a single amount evenly spread across the day and you test at a certain hour every time, it’ll be easier to see the trends, make an adjustment, watch it take place and readjust (because we’re not always spot on).
Now imagine doing the same thing for more than 1 schedule, even with a monitoring system - you’ll quickly cause swings across the board, with possibly added chain reaction on top of it, for something that may sometimes change weekly when corals take off.

 

[AKL1950]

People often times overthink and over do things in this hobby, but not consider the fact that those who actually benefit from this kind of improvements are people with big tanks full of coral they’ve been handling for years, sometimes decades and had to fix a certain issue they’ve been dealing with along the way.

I’ve been in this hobby myself for 16 years, and yes I do have a 200 gal tank full of grown up colonies, and yes I did take into account consumption rates (and small PH swings more as a by product) and handled this by growing coral in my sump in a reverse light schedule to offset the difference.
But I also dose ~500ml of saturated Sodium Bicarbonate per day (24/7).
If I didn’t have something to offset the difference I would easily have over 1dKh swing between peak hour and night, which is well above the recommended range and will affect the corals.

On the other hand, I also have a separate frag tank without any “fancy stability tricks” where the consumption is around 130ml of saturated Sodium Bicarbonate per day, and I dose 24/7 without any noticeable swings that I need to worry about.

So it really is depended on your specific situation, and it’s better to not chase the numbers, but settle on an acceptable range, which in some extreme situations indeed may need an intervention.

There is another reason why I specifically advocate to use a 24/7 dosing schedule (like I do in both systems) - and it’s more about managing consumption rates.
A closed system like we all keep is very dynamic, things change and we always need to adjust.
When you have a single amount evenly spread across the day and you test at a certain hour every time, it’ll be easier to see the trends, make an adjustment, watch it take place and readjust (because we’re not always spot on).
Now imagine doing the same thing for more than 1 schedule, even with a monitoring system - you’ll quickly cause swings across the board, with possibly added chain reaction on top of it, for something that may sometimes change weekly when corals take off.

I’m definitely not at your level yet, but hoping to get there. My tank is still young, but maturing. 180 gallon total tank and sump. I’m dosing Brightwell part A 40 ml/day and seeing I’m needing to go up more every months. A lot of the Acro’s are breaking out and starting to grow fast. I’m looking forward more than anything. When you say saturated sodium bicarbonate, what formula do you use to mix it into a liquid form. I can see as my amount needed goes up, I need to go to find a more cost effective solution.

 

[Jekyl]

I’m definitely not at your level yet, but hoping to get there. My tank is still young, but maturing. 180 gallon total tank and sump. I’m dosing Brightwell part A 40 ml/day and seeing I’m needing to go up more every months. A lot of the Acro’s are breaking out and starting to grow fast. I’m looking forward more than anything. When you say saturated sodium bicarbonate, what formula do you use to mix it into a liquid form. I can see as my amount needed goes up, I need to go to find a more cost effective solution.

Check out some of the threads from @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[blaxsun]

I dose on a curve, ie: more during the day and less in the morning, evening and at night.

 

[AKL1950]

I dose on a curve, ie: more during the day and less in the morning, evening and at night.

Is that manual or a dosing system? I’m trying to look at all the options.

 

[blaxsun]

Is that manual or a dosing system? I’m trying to look at all the options.

I use an Apex/DOS/Trident to automatically implement/adjust dosing based on a predetermined schedule.

 

[AKL1950]

I use an Apex/DOS/Trident to automatically implement/adjust dosing based on a predetermined schedule.

That’s what I have. I have not allowed trident to determine dosing because I haven't developed a trust for it yet. I just let apex dose what I set.

 

[DanyL]

Sounds like you’re doing well and on the right path, I wouldn’t change a thing until you start to experience noticeable stability issues (usually starts in the form of a sudden drop in consumption).

I make my own Alk supplement from 410 grams of Sodium Bicarbonate to 5L of RODI, but you can also use Sodium Carbonate/Hydroxide for a more potent solution, although you need to take into account that they’ll both raise PH.

You can also take a look a Randy’s recipes, they are widely used and tested by many, and as an added bonus you’ll also get a lot of background information which explains the chemical side of things.

 

[blaxsun]

That’s what I have. I have not allowed trident to determine dosing because I haven't developed a trust for it yet. I just let apex dose what I set.

It's very effective - the key with the Trident is to trust but verify, ie: manual test and recalibrate every time you switch out a reagent.

 

[AKL1950]

Sounds like you’re doing well and on the right path, I wouldn’t change a thing until you start to experience noticeable stability issues (usually starts in the form of a sudden drop in consumption).

I make my own Alk supplement from 410 grams of Sodium Bicarbonate to 5L of RODI, but you can also use Sodium Carbonate/Hydroxide for a more potent solution, although you need to take into account that they’ll both raise PH.

You can also take a look a Randy’s recipes, they are widely used and tested by many, and as an added bonus you’ll also get a lot of background information which explains the chemical side of things.

Definitely will look at them. Already saved the links. As I said, things are running good, but trying to look to the future as the tank progresses. Thanks for your formula.

Here‘s where I am today. Some of these guys are becoming weeds.

 

[Jekyl]

Kalk reactor in the future. Very nice setup

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Most alk demand seems to take place during the daylight hours. Dosing most or all alk spread through the day seems to stabilize it the most in high alk demand systems.

 

[AKL1950]

Most alk demand seems to take place during the daylight hours. Dosing must or dosing if alk spread through the day seems to stabilize it the most in high alk demand systems.

Thanks Randy

 

[marinesnow]

This tank is dosed once per day by hand. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[Yanir34]

People often times overthink and over do things in this hobby, but not consider the fact that those who actually benefit from this kind of improvements are people with big tanks full of coral they’ve been handling for years, sometimes decades and had to fix a certain issue they’ve been dealing with along the way.

I’ve been in this hobby myself for 16 years, and yes I do have a 200 gal tank full of grown up colonies, and yes I did take into account consumption rates (and small PH swings more as a by product) and handled this by growing coral in my sump in a reverse light schedule to offset the difference.
But I also dose ~500ml of saturated Sodium Bicarbonate per day (24/7).
If I didn’t have something to offset the difference I would easily have over 1dKh swing between peak hour and night, which is well above the recommended range and will affect the corals.

On the other hand, I also have a separate frag tank without any “fancy stability tricks” where the consumption is around 130ml of saturated Sodium Bicarbonate per day, and I dose 24/7 without any noticeable swings that I need to worry about.

So it really is depended on your specific situation, and it’s better to not chase the numbers, but settle on an acceptable range, which in some extreme situations indeed may need an intervention.

There is another reason why I specifically advocate to use a 24/7 dosing schedule (like I do in both systems) - and it’s more about managing consumption rates.
A closed system like we all keep is very dynamic, things change and we always need to adjust.
When you have a single amount evenly spread across the day and you test at a certain hour every time, it’ll be easier to see the trends, make an adjustment, watch it take place and readjust (because we’re not always spot on).
Now imagine doing the same thing for more than 1 schedule, even with a monitoring system - you’ll quickly cause swings across the board, with possibly added chain reaction on top of it, for something that may sometimes change weekly when corals take off.

How much ml of sodium bicarbonate are you dosing to raise the tank Dkh in 0.1 ?