All Acroporas gone - Suddenly

[Flippers4pups]

Imho, I can’t imagine alkalinity moving a great deal in your tank, with water changes every week. That’s if the salt mix you use has a good dkh after mixing.

A swing of .5-1 dkh shouldn’t cause SPS to crash, unless it dipped below 7 for a extended period. Below 7 and hard corals begin to melt.

In my tank, 180 total volume, I’ve tracked my alkalinity usage for a long time and with a more than hand full of hard coral in, it I have to dose twice a week. 8-9 dkh range. When it gets down to 8, I dose enough to bring it back to 9 all at once and so on and so on. I could use a doser at this point.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I would guess alk spike did it. I've got a Millie STNing from the base a week after mine spiked. Garf bonsai is very pale, hoping it pulls thru.

With only 17 gallons of water stuff will happen so fast. You need to be at the top of your game to take care of an SPS tank that small.

This.

I was going to add a doser, but my alkalinity consumption isn't consistent. Most days it'll drop about 0.2-0.3dkh. Other days it won't drop at all.

Looks like a doser will be needed to continue with acros, huh?

You don't need a doser to do acros as long as you don't have too many or a low over all consumption. If it's a high consumption yes. I is it well with no dosing.

The tank is small is the problem. A slight swing in alk, ph, or salinity and your toast. Salinity will toast the the alk all by itself.
It becuse of the actual density of the water. So with med high demand and a slight change to one or the other and you see what happens.


I'm a little concerned for my 3o cube forget now cuz a couple of corals are (not bragging) massive. I've been watching my consumption go up and the all go slowly lower. And I'm on a doser. But if I changed salinity slightly right now I could crash becuse the alk drops.

I also have to use more smaller doses during the day to keep the swing down. Plus a bigger kick at night for ph. I also do that becuse I don't have a sump in that tank.

So yea, you have to be on top of your game with an Acro Pico.

Personally I don't want to work that hard.
I will say I've seen it done well, but the key to those it seemed was a sump.

 

[Todd31]

Your alk may not be as variable as you think. There is going to be some testing error here and there. If you're looking to stay with sps you're going to want to automate the dosing.

Also, add to the bioload slowly to find the sweet spot with nitrates and phosphates. All that manual dosing is exhausting, expensive, and adds to the list of things that can go wrong...

 

[Flippers4pups]

This.




You don't need a doser to do acros as long as you don't have too many or a low over all consumption. If it's a high consumption yes. I is it well with no dosing.

The tank is small is the problem. A slight swing in alk, ph, or salinity and your toast. Salinity will toast the the alk all by itself.
It becuse of the actual density of the water. So with med high demand and a slight change to one or the other and you see what happens.


I'm a little concerned for my 3o cube forget now cuz a couple of corals are (not bragging) massive. I've been watching my consumption go up and the all go slowly lower. And I'm on a doser. But if I changed salinity slightly right now I could crash becuse the alk drops.

I also have to use more smaller doses during the day to keep the swing down. Plus a bigger kick at night for ph. I also do that becuse I don't have a sump in that tank.

So yea, you have to be on top of your game with an Acro Pico.

Personally I don't want to work that hard.
I will say I've seen it done well, but the key to those it seemed was a sump.

Yep, Salty. Just tough in a small system and requires a lot of time and adjustments to stay balanced.

More water volume, more stability, easier to do.

 

[Diesel]

I say it one more time, Balance is the key and you don't use buffers for that.
My 200 gallon SPS tank doesn't even drop as much in ALK during a 24 hr period as yours.
If you dose with a calcium carbonate, which for your 17 is over kill it will be better and you need only 2ml a day or so.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I say it one more time, Balance is the key and you don't use buffers for that.
My 200 gallon SPS tank doesn't even drop as much in ALK during a 24 hr period as yours.
If you dose with a calcium carbonate, which for your 17 is over kill it will be better and you need only 2ml a day or so.

Yup. Listen to that guy.

It took me two full months to get my dose correct. Start slow. Only increase the alk once a week.
Imo no matter how much you want to push that button.

Also stay slow.

 

[Diesel]

"Nothing good happens fast in this hobby only bad things happen overnight, if you think you go slow, slow down even more.
I never seen a Acro frag turn into a colony overnight but have seen many times a colony turn into a frag"

 

[teller]

I think you are making a mistake testing alk everyday. You should only test every two, preferably every three days. Every time you test there is an error range, that is the reason sometimes you see no change while others you see some deviation: most probably the values are in this error range and make it difficult to make a consistent conclusion regarding your real alk consumption. Try testing every three days and decide from there.

Instead of dosing nitrates and phosphates maybe you should just skip a water change (make it every two weeks or so) or decrease the volume like from 10% to 5% or so every week.

Finally I believe that nowadays we can easily achieve states of over filtration, I mean, if we dose higher quantities of carbon we can put bacteria out competing our corals. Also with macro/micro algae techniques, I believe we can make this out compete the corals when in excess, like too many hours of refugium/reactor lights. The same with gfo, etc. Just my opinion of course.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

The best nano sps keeper I've seen is @ReeferMadness80G... his biocube was awesome, but it was highly modified and had a sump. I'm floundering with my IM 14g peninsula, so I'm upgrading to a 35g with a sump. Small water volume means everything changes so fast. I've got LPS down. Acans growing like crazy, duncans sprouting new heads. Easy as cake. Some of my SPS is doing great, others aren't.

 

[reefwiser]

Having a 40 gallon to me is a small tank. I worry with parameter changes in that volume of water. Would never do a 14 gallon tank long term for a QT tank for a few weeks yes but long term the parameter changes would drive me nuts.

 

[tripdad]

I had a ten gallon SPS tank a few years ago, it is work. Water changes would be better, best for taking care of all params. They will not shock the tank with swings, they will remove waste and replenish elements. Mix up a fair size batch of salt water and change 10% every 3 days. Mine survived with great growth and color for about 2 years.

 

[Zagreus]

Hey buddy I see you're investing a lot of time, heart and money into this. I don't really have any advice other than my own personal experience and that I have a hard time keeping SPS in a 45 gallon tank. Generally when I tell people what my tank size is, they comment it's really hard to keep SPS in a small tank as stuff can change and go wrong quick. I can't imagine trying to keep things stable in a 17 gallon tank where you can sneeze and change your parameters. I think you gotta give yourself a little credit and a pat on the back that you're actually trying to do something that's incredibly difficult with very little margin of error. Don't let it get your spirits to down. You have a super cool tank and great equipment. Maybe focus on what you're having success with now and take a break with the things that are causing you heartache to take stock and figure out the best way to move forward.

 

[Piranhapat]

I think you should kept it simply and just do weekly WC . They really no need in dosing and chasing numbers in a small tank. I have a 12 gal and just do WC and water par is stable. I have about 20 SPS.

 

[914joe]

I have a full 30g and use less alk.IMO you should be able to keep parameters in check with only water changes. I haven't tested po4 or nitrate in years... not proud just saying I have no experience with the alk buffer your using but to me something not adding up with your results. I'd try just doing water changes without adding supplements for a good stretch.

 

[Jimmyneptune]

Try to get 100 gallon size or more plus a sump if you want SPS. Make it easier on yourself. It won't cost more because you will get more balance and wiggle room for all your parameters.

 

[Mattrg02]

Thanks for the all help guys! I used to have no problems a few years back. Back then, I didn't test anything, not even salinity. I had acros growing like weeds. My montiporas were taking over, big time, and algae ran supreme.

The tank crashed when I had to move and tried to reuse the sand bed. Instant ammonia spike and all sps dead.

The only thing I did right back then was weekly water changes using rodi water. I didn't bother matching anything. Just used the cups per gallon recommended.

Years later, I get serious about testing and get better equipment. I ditched the sandbed and now, it would seem, my luck ran out. The more I tested, the more I worried.

I'll get back to just water changes and see how it goes.

 

[ReeferMadness80G]

My 14 gallon, was probably around 15 actual gallons with water displacement from sand and rocks and adding a small Sump.
I had this tank for 2.5 years before it exhausted me chasing numbers almost every other day. I will say that I couldn't keep sps to save my life until the tank was about 1.5 years old. Then I found stump remover and used it to keep my nitrates around 5-10ppm along with 6 fish. Even after my tank was somewhat stable the littlest thing would wreck it. I added a piece of man made LR from WWC one time and it crashed my whole tank. That just shows you how finicky nano tanks are, the littlest thing can destroy it, that's when I really decided to stop. It's not worth putting thousands of dollars worth of corals in a tank to lose overnight. The very good part about it is it makes you really learn SPS, so when you do get a bigger tank and start keeping them, you will have plenty of practice! I'm not saying it can't be done, it definitely can, but it's a lot of work!

 

[Mattrg02]

I've been slowly planning a new tank. Don't want to get into the 100g game, but looking at the 50g range. I like the Red Sea reefer tanks. Expensive, but looks to be very nice.

In the meantime, I'll probably go back to water changes, much more often, and up the feeding for my two fish.

 

[BoomCorals]

What's worse, as far as alkalinity goes, going low or going high?

It's not your alk in and of itself. A swing of one dkh in a day or two isn't uncommon nor will it cause issue. If you checked alk every 3 hours 24/7 you'd be surprised how much it fluctuates.

 

[BoomCorals]

With only 17 gallons of water stuff will happen so fast. You need to be at the top of your game to take care of an SPS tank that small.

This is the truth. SPS in small tanks is tough. You're always on that razors edge.