Almost all sps is bleaching! And zoas wont open!

[kyla bidwell]

I have a mixed reef and all of my lps is doing wonderful. The tank has been up for about a uear amd a half. About 5 months ago I upgraded to metal halide lights so I decided to give sps a try. Well, I got quite a bit pretty quick. I have the following sps:
monti cap × 4
digitata ×2
sunset monti
pokerstar monti
seasons greetings monti
red planet acro
purple tip acro
pocillapora
green slimmer
hulk leptoseris
rainbow millepora
hydrnaphona (sp)

the lepto and mille are the only ones that still look good. They mille is actually better than ever with polyp extension that I didnt even think was possible.

It all started just about a week ago. The monti cap was the first to bleach. It happened almost overnight. Then the other montis started. The acros are all slowly bleaching but they are doing it in spots instead of the whole thing. The digitata is just really light. Not completly bleached. My lps is doing good but not growing. I have frogspawn and hammar. The fs is great but the hammer hasnt looked good. I did fine a nudibranch on my glass that looked like a toadstool or xenia. I havent been able to find anymore on anything though.
My zoas also havent opened for almost a month. I have people eaters that are fine. But my gobstopper palys havent opened in 2 weeks or so. Oh and I also have a softball sized chalice thats doing good.

The person I got my coral from had them under kessil led lights. I have them under 1 250 watt 10000k metal halide. I would do 14000k or 20000k but for some reason I cant get them to work. Tried several ballasts amd my house just wont let me have a higher Kelvin temp apparently. Its weird. But anyway, id really like to know what could be causing my sps and zoas so much stress. Is there a pest that targets all and only sps? My water prams are allin check. I dont have a mag test though.

Sg is .25
Temp is 79-80
Nitrate 0
Amm 0
Nitrite 0
Calcium 480
Dkh 10
Ph is low at around 8
Could it be my ph?
Phosphate 0

I will get some pics posted asap. Its really depressing to look at though I must warn you.

Please help? I have been looking into dosing vodka. Could that help/hurt?

 

[D maul]

No nitrate or phosphate, needs some nutrients in there. Did you light acclimate your corals when you switch lighting? I would go with a 14 or 20k mh bulb if I were you.

 

[robert]

Sorry to hear - I've run into these type of situations - figured out some while others still remain a mystery.

I don't think its your pH. Nor would I start dosing vodka or any other carbon source as you N and P look fine.

Can you tell me how your currently maintaining 0 N and P?
Do you have a refugium? Any macros in the system?

So - there is a buunch of stuff that we can't test for - so generally my first steps are water changes and carbon, but I figure you've probably already done this.

I also don't think its the light as you did this 5 months ago and things were going fine before the reversal. Do you have fish in the system?

 

[kyla bidwell]

No nitrate or phosphate, needs some nutrients in there. Did you light acclimate your corals when you switch lighting? I would go with a 14 or 20k mh bulb if I were you.

how should I go about getting nutrients in the system? I have a few fish. I do biweekly water changes. Sometimes only monthly water changes. and I run carbon.
I started all the coral out on a frag rack on the sandbed. Then after 2 weeks I moved them to their permanent spots. My light is hsnging about a foot above the water line.

I tired several different 20000k bulbs on several different ballasts one of them being an electronic ballast. For some reason im not able to run a 20000k bulb in my house. Ive tried it in a few different places in my house. The owner of.my lfs cant even figure out why this is. Its strange. I have a thread regarding this and ive tried everything that has been recommended. Its REALLY weird I know. I sure do wish I could run a 20000k bc I love the look of it.

 

[Pfisherman]

I think its to much light probably, tell us more about your lighting and tank. Specifically what wattage and how far above the waterline in what sizr tank.

 

[robert]

So you do nothing to maintain 0 N and P?

 

[kyla bidwell]

Sorry to hear - I've run into these type of situations - figured out some while others still remain a mystery.

I don't think its your pH. Nor would I start dosing vodka or any other carbon source as you N and P look fine.

Can you tell me how your currently maintaining 0 N and P?
Do you have a refugium? Any macros in the system?

So - there is a buunch of stuff that we can't test for - so generally my first steps are water changes and carbon, but I figure you've probably already done this.

I also don't think its the light as you did this 5 months ago and things were going fine before the reversal. Do you have fish in the system?

No fuge and no macros. I just do biweekly to monthly wc and I run carbon. Actually I think the name of the stuff I run is GFO. its in a squishy mesh bag. Im using an AFI test kit so It could be that the nutrients are very low and im seeimg it as 0. The nitrates I know are 0 bc theres a big color difference on the test kit. The phosphates I could be wrong about though. The colors are very similar on it.
I will take my water to have it tested tomorrow for sure.

I do have fish and a clean up crew. I have 2 clowns, 1 chomis, and 3 damsals. 1 YWG and a scooter blenny. I also have a medium sized BTA. I use distilled water. Never tap.

 

[robert]

The API nitrate test can be tricky...you have to shake the test tube very hard for 15 seconds of so between each reagent of you may read 0 when you actually have high nitrate...

You've done water changes - run carbon - you don't have algae? right?

Has you tank been running hot?

Whats your lighting cycle...and how big is the tank?

 

[kyla bidwell]

I think its to much light probably, tell us more about your lighting and tank. Specifically what wattage and how far above the waterline in what sizr tank.

So you do nothing to maintain 0 N and P?

I'm using an API test kit so I could be a little off on the P. The colors are very similar. the nitrates im sure are 0 though. im going to take a water sample to my lfs to be tested first thing tomorrow. I know my phosphates arent high. But the colors that go from 0 to .5 are very close. Ill post my exact prams asap tomorrow. im using a canister and HOB filter. I change/clean the media at least once a week. I have a LOT of rock. Approximately 115lbs. My sandbed is 1 to 3 inches deep.


My light is 1 250 watt 10000k metal halide bulb. It is about 1 foot above the waterline amd my tank is a 46 gallon bowfront.

 

[kyla bidwell]

I think its to much light probably, tell us more about your lighting and tank. Specifically what wattage and how far above the waterline in what sizr tank.

So you do nothing to maintain 0 N and P?

I'm using an API test kit so I could be a little off on the P. The colors are very similar. the nitrates im sure are 0 though. im going to take a water sample to my lfs to be tested first thing tomorrow. I know my phosphates arent high. But the colors that go from 0 to .5 are very close. Ill post my exact prams asap tomorrow. im using a canister and HOB filter. I change/clean the media at least once a week. I have a LOT of rock. Approximately 115lbs. My sandbed is 1 to 3 inches deep.


My light is 1 250 watt 10000k metal halide bulb. It is about 1 foot above the waterline amd my tank is a 46 gallon bowfront.

 

[robert]

250 MH should not be too much for that tank...the specturm is lower that I like ... but thats not it either.

I don't get the lack of nutrients...forget the P...why no N? You should have N unless your corals or something else is consuming it faster than your fish and feeding produce it.

When was the last time the sandbed was vac'ed? Are you producing sulphides anywhere?

substrate - gravel? sand?

 

[nongni]

Do you check your rodi tds?

 

[kyla bidwell]

The API nitrate test can be tricky...you have to shake the test tube very hard for 15 seconds of so between each reagent of you may read 0 when you actually have high nitrate...

You've done water changes - run carbon - you don't have algae? right?

Has you tank been running hot?

Whats your lighting cycle...and how big is the tank?

ah well that could explain a lot then! Ill get another test kit tomorrow when I go to lfs. My tank has not been running hot. The temp only fluctuates 1 degree. I use fans that blow underneath the light. I run my lights for 10 to 12 hours a day. Usually from 10am to 10pm. Tank is a 46 gallon. No algea problems. The water looks Crystal clear.

 

[robert]

You should have nitrates...which are not a bad thing by the way - unless they get too high.

If your test is correct - and you really do have 0 - then they are being consumed either by the corals or denitrifying bacteria,
Denittrifying bacteria are usually anaerobic - living where there is little oxygen - like in the sandbed...these often produce sulphides which are toxic and smell like eggs..sulphur. You sometimes can see them as black zones below the sand up against the glass. This could be it...do you clean the substrate?

or - your corals are consuming all your nitrate and are simply starving - thats not it.

or - your test kit is wonky and you really have high nitrate - and your GFO is keeping your P in check so no algae...but if this were true your corals would be happy - unless its really high...then the SPS would take the hit first followed by LPS and finally the anenome.

 

[kyla bidwell]

Do you check your rodi tds?

I have no idea what tds means......sorry :-\

You should have nitrates...which are not a bad thing by the way - unless they get too high.

If your test is correct - and you really do have 0 - then they are being consumed either by the corals or denitrifying bacteria,
Denittrifying bacteria are usually anaerobic - living where there is little oxygen - like in the sandbed...these often produce sulphides which are toxic and smell like eggs..sulphur. You sometimes can see them as black zones below the sand up against the glass. This could be it...do you clean the substrate?

I think you nailed it. Every now and then I get a whiff of sulfer. My coral smells like it sometimes when I take a frag out. And my empty shells always smell like it. Can you tell me more about how to id the zones in the sand?



or - your corals are consuming all your nitrate and are simply starving - thats not it.

or - your test kit is wonky and you really have high nitrate - and your GFO is keeping your P in check so no algae...but if this were true your corals would be happy - unless its really high...then the SPS would take the hit first followed by LPS and finally the anenome.

 

[nongni]

I have no idea what tds means......sorry :-\

Last time i had same problem my rodi system water came out at 25 tds. Once i fix it i did 50% water change since then all my sps healing from dying

 

[kyla bidwell]

Last time i had same problem my rodi system water came out at 25 tds. Once i fix it i did 50% water change since then all my sps healing from dying

Do fish stores sell test kits for tds? Or did you go to home depot or lowes? I use distilled water but im guessing that tds could be in distilled too huh?

 

[robert]

TDS is total dissolved solids...a water quality parameter...but you said you use distilled water...so thats not it...if you want one - buy a zero-water kit and you get one for free.

Get a second opinion on your test results...if they're correct - my guess would be your sand bed has gotten fouled, gone anoxic and is consuming your nutrients and producing shlphides...

I would begin removing it in thirds by siphoning being careful not to stir it up. Remove only one third per day...discard the water you take with the sand - replace the water with fresh mixed saltwater.

When the sunstrate is out - rinse and replace - or dispose and replace.

If you have the time and energy - put a undergravel filter in and run it in reverse - use gravel not sand - this will forstall it ever happening again and make it so you can vac the sandbed without worry...old school I know - but thats how it was done in the days when cannister filters were used.

 

[kyla bidwell]

Robert I think you are correct. I do smell sulfer in my empty shells a lot and my frags smell like it sometimes as well. I think I can see the black zones you described too. My sand came from a friend who had an established 210 gallon reef. I got his sand to help with bacteria when I first set up my tank. i also filled my tank with his water. But my point is, that the sand is pretty old. I actually haven't ever even vacuumed my sandbed. I just stir it up once a week. I had gone about a month without stirring it, then a week ago I stirred it, which when my problems began. So that makes total sense. I released all of the bad gas into the water that had built up when I didnt stir the sand for a month.

Is there ANY way around removing the sand? I dont even know how to siphon or ha e the equipment to do it. Oh what a mess! :-(

 

[kyla bidwell]

Here are a few photos. Is this what your referring to as black zones? Little air pockets that look black. Also you can see the acros. Amd the photo of the white rock actually has 4 different monti cap corals on it. They are so bleached they are blending into the white rock. What are the chances of my coral recovering after I fix this problem? Are they doomed?