Am I crazy for thinking MH + t5 ?

[BoomCorals]

I'd email dave at Hamilton technologies. He would be able to help you for sure, especially if there bad bulbs or ballasts. I'm using Hamilton's 150 watt 20k bulbs and there really bright.

I don't have an email for "Dave"?

 

[BoomCorals]

Here's a few pics. Hard to tell maybe in the pic but the A360we lighting the tank next to this one is dramatically brighter.

 

[Velcro]

Something doesn’t seem right. 1000 par that close to a halide bulb is low. What’s the par directly against a t5 bulb

 

[BoomCorals]

Something doesn’t seem right. 1000 par that close to a halide bulb is low. What’s the par directly against a t5 bulb

Directly under the T5 at the fixture is about 500 par. Seems about right, considering the T5 have no individual reflectors.

 

[jeremy]

@BoomCorals here is contact info for Hamilton.
800-447-9797
[email protected]

I don't use their t5 bulbs but I do use their halide bulbs and mine are fine. I run the 250w 14k single end bulb on galaxy select a watt ballast.

 

[Velcro]

Directly under the T5 at the fixture is about 500 par. Seems about right, considering the T5 have no individual reflectors.

When I touch my apogee par sensor to an ATI blue plus or coral plus it’s 1000+ par. This is the sensor directly against one bulb.

 

[BoomCorals]

@BoomCorals here is contact info for Hamilton.
800-447-9797
[email protected]

I don't use their t5 bulbs but I do use their halide bulbs and mine are fine. I run the 250w 14k single end bulb on galaxy select a watt ballast.

Thanks I'll contact them Monday. I'm going to go ahead and upgrade to luxcore 250w ballasts and radium 250w bulbs, as well as 2x ATI blue plus and 2x ATI aquablue special. But if there is something wrong with the stock ballasts and bulbs I'd like to get it fixed in case I ever sell them or the fixture!

 

[BoomCorals]

When I touch my apogee par sensor to an ATI blue plus or coral plus it’s 1000+ par. This is the sensor directly against one bulb.

I would have to remove the glass panel to directly touch. I get 1600 par when I'm under a halide and touch the meter to the glass panel.

 

[3mm3]

What's wrong with the reflector? I was under the impression the reflector and fixture is of high quality?

I am not saying the reflector or the fixture is bad. You just don't get the best light spread from that design. I like Hamilton, run them on my setup.

 

[DSC reef]

I am not saying the reflector or the fixture is bad. You just don't get the best light spread from that design. I like Hamilton, run them on my setup.

I gotcha. I'm running the old style 150 watt DE, there like lazer beams.

 

[BoomCorals]

I am not saying the reflector or the fixture is bad. You just don't get the best light spread from that design. I like Hamilton, run them on my setup.

I get that the design may not be the best but to get these par numbers out of the box the fixture is essentially unusable for my frag tank. This is my grow out frag tank for sps so that won't cut it. It would probably be great for any standard tank where the light is a few inches off the water. Im tempted to sell it and buy the giesemann lol.

 

[3mm3]

I get that the design may not be the best but to get these par numbers out of the box the fixture is essentially unusable for my frag tank. This is my grow out frag tank for sps so that won't cut it. It would probably be great for any standard tank where the light is a few inches off the water. Im tempted to sell it and buy the giesemann lol.

I agree those par numbers are not what they should be. For reference my water is 24ish inches deep. My halides sit about 14 inches off the water and I am at 200 par on the sand. That's with 250w DE 14000k halide only.

 

[rtparty]

I get that the design may not be the best but to get these par numbers out of the box the fixture is essentially unusable for my frag tank. This is my grow out frag tank for sps so that won't cut it. It would probably be great for any standard tank where the light is a few inches off the water. Im tempted to sell it and buy the giesemann lol.

How long have the bulbs been running? T5s need 50-100 hours to truly burn in. Some bulbs increase PAR considerably after the burn in time.

However, you'll love the Radium color if you've never had them. I ran Phoenix bulbs when I had halide and went Radium this time around. The color is perfect without any supplementation

 

[A. grandis]

All three technologies, MH, T5, and LED have proven capable of growing coral successfully. While some may try to claim the any single technology, or combo is "the best" for corals I don't think we have scientific evidence for that. Let's face it, the best light source for corals is the sun filtered to replicate the correct or ideal depth for that coral. We take deep water acros, blast them with light, and then claim which one is the best?

This has been alluded to earlier in the thread. There's no need to bash any other tech just because they didn't work for you or some people you know. It's also very silly to compare an emerging technology performance of 5-7 years ago to the latest iteration of that technology. Have T5's and MH stayed exactly the same since their inception or did it take time for manufacturers to develop the types of bulbs, reflectors, and ballasts available today?

Trying to judge the effectiveness of a fixture based off of the number of for sale threads is ridiculous. LED's have achieved significant acceptance in the hobby where MH has largely faded. I wonder what the yearly shipments are for each technology? I'd wager LED far outpaces T5's and MH combined. That means nothing when it comes to the effectiveness of the technology, but it explains why you see a gap in the number of fixtures for sale from each technology.

People need to stop making these threads a "this better than that" ******* match. If MH works for you, great! But it's naive to sit there and say that MH is better than LED. Could you say a 250w Radium is better for a 24" cube than a Kessil A160? Maybe. Depends on what they're keeping right? Blanket statements like that help nobody, certainly not newcomers to the hobby.

Again, each technology has its pro's and con's. We'd all be better off if we stated our opinions as exactly that, opinions, rather than as fact.

We are all giving our opinions here, my friend.
Thanks for yours.
Grandis.

 

[d2mini]

I think @d2mini has the same light? Any ideas?

I did, on my previous tank. Had a 24" over the frag tank too.
Never checked par but the tank was definitely not dim. Much brighter than the first gen radions I had on it before that.
I ran the Hamilton Magnetic M80 ballasts and Radium bulbs.
Have you talked to David at Hamilton Technology?

 

[BoomCorals]

I did, on my previous tank. Had a 24" over the frag tank too.
Never checked par but the tank was definitely not dim. Much brighter than the first gen radions I had on it before that.
I ran the Hamilton Magnetic M80 ballasts and Radium bulbs.
Have you talked to David at Hamilton Technology?

Going to email him yes.

 

[A. grandis]

My bet is low end bulbs. I only ran Hamilton halide bulbs for a week before I had to make a change back in the day. They weren't anywhere near the Phoenix 14k in looks. Mine was a 150w Hamilton Bimini fixture running the magnetic ballast. I loved that little fixture!

My personal opinion (and bias at this point) is Hamilton bulbs just aren't any good. Years ago I saw numbers from Grim Reefer (Reef Central peeps will know him very well) and Hamilton T5s didn't hold a candle to the good brands. ATI has consistently been the best T5 bulbs for almost a decade now IMO. KZ is close (both are made by the same company) but KZ is too expensive when ATI performs just as good if not better.

Giesemann T5 bulbs are also good bulbs but not up to ATI PAR levels.

I heard Phoenix 14K is a great bulb. I would still get the Radiums and the LuXcore ballast!
Say hi to Grim for me, would you? I aways remember of him. Hope he is doing great!!!
I like KZ bulbs a lot, but ATI is also great!

I get that the design may not be the best but to get these par numbers out of the box the fixture is essentially unusable for my frag tank. This is my grow out frag tank for sps so that won't cut it. It would probably be great for any standard tank where the light is a few inches off the water. Im tempted to sell it and buy the giesemann lol.

What about returning and getting the other in exchange?
I would still get either the Lumen Bright or the Cozumel Sun with the radiums and the LuXcore if that was my system.
But if you have money for the Spectra instead... Haha! All good!
Try to return the fixture, man...
Grandis.

 

[BoomCorals]

I heard Phoenix 14K is a great bulb. I would still get the Radiums and the LuXcore ballast!
Say hi to Grim for me, would you? I aways remember of him. Hope he is doing great!!!
I like KZ bulbs a lot, but ATI is also great!


What about returning and getting the other in exchange?
I would still get either the Lumen Bright or the Cozumel Sun with the radiums and the LuXcore if that was my system.
But if you have money for the Spectra instead... Haha! All good!
Try to return the fixture, man...
Grandis.

If BRS would let me exchange and upgrade to the spectra I would. But since I've opened it to my knowledge they won't let me exchange it. Even if I paid return shipping and have the packaging etc.

 

[Velcro]

If BRS would let me exchange and upgrade to the spectra I would. But since I've opened it to my knowledge they won't let me exchange it. Even if I paid return shipping and have the packaging etc.

Hrm, I've returned an opened reefbrite XHO. Honestly, the spectra and the hamilton IMO is the wrong form factor for a frag tank. Neither excels at being high from the waterline.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

I get that the design may not be the best but to get these par numbers out of the box the fixture is essentially unusable for my frag tank. This is my grow out frag tank for sps so that won't cut it. It would probably be great for any standard tank where the light is a few inches off the water. Im tempted to sell it and buy the giesemann lol.

As someone else mentioned, I'm not sure how long you let the bulbs 'burn in' before whipping out the PAR meter, but you really need to chill and give them a few days to warm up so to speak. I've never had a DE or SE halide produce it's proper numbers on the first firing. Day 2 or 3 is the soonest I'd be comfortable trusting any output from a new metal halide bulb.

That said, I don't want to bash Hamilton and I think they make a fine product, but having experienced their T5s and SE halide bulbs in person on some of my customer tanks they were underwhelming to say the least. Swap for the M80s and Radiums and you won't be disappointed. Providing there's no mechanical wiring problem with your fixture, upgrading to a Radiums or a higher end halide with magnetic ballasts and ATI T5s will be a revelation compared to the stock components on that system.

Also, because of the way halide reflectors work you really should not put much stock in readings 7-12" below the fixture in air. Once operating with proper bulbs and ballasts use your PAR meter in the growing zone of your frag tank and raise and lower the light til you get an even, proper PAR level across the majority of you tank. The supreme light diffusion and lack of shadowing that the reflector type systems offer will absolutely crush most LED arrays firing out of 1 or 2 fixed points above the tank. It's not always about the peak PAR, but very much to do with the useable light that's reaching the edges and undersides of coral branches that makes the difference with 'old school lighting systems' This diffusion effect is why T5 is so darn effective at producing those perfectly shaped coral colonies. It's all about even light spread.

Congrats on the new setup and best of luck with troubleshooting!