Am I rushing things?

[Jude135]

I've had a 30 gal tank for 5 years. 6 months ago I gave away most of the live rock because it was teeming with aptaxia, so now I just have 6 fish and 2 turbos and 30 lbs of newly purchased live rock.

I'm expanding my empire to a 90 gal tank and 40 gal sump. Today I purchased 50 lbs of live rock from a pet store going out of the saltwater side of the business. The rock looks scrubbed clean! (At least it was still in salt water.) Owner said the rock is 4 years old. This means I don't have to cycle it, right? That's my question. Should I throw some shrimp in the tank and monitor a cycle or is the tank safe for my fish? If I don't have to cycle it, and I add the 30 lbs from my smaller tank, can I just add the fish too? I'm just not sure my new rock will have sufficient bacteria to support my fish. but the old rock will help seed it, right? Maybe buy bacteria in a bottle? What would you do?

 

[aaron23]

i would not rush it, put the rock in a bucket with sw, test for ammonia the next few days and then go from there

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Id put it in a container with a powerhead and test the levels. No and Po. its likeley cycled but its a good time to check and maybe get any high po down. maybe even add some bacteria.
AND it works as a QT for pests.

 

[mcarroll]

I hope you either inspected or replaced your plumbing along with your live rock, because aiptasia love to live in there too.

If the new rock spent four years in a pet store it's unlikely there are pests in it that wouldn't be obvious on the service surface.

I would also not worry about PO4 on the rock - I believe that is a very overblown issue. Someone will have to put it in perspective for me some day: how much phosphate could be adsorbed onto a pile of live rock versus a pinch of flake food?

 

[Jude135]

I killed all my fish. I added bottled bacteria before I introduced them to the new tank because the ammonia level was a bit high. This morning I tested again and all the parameters were perfectly fine. But by noon the fish were dead. The Specific Gravity had risen to 1.030. I don't know why as it was 1.024 yesterday. Those fish were 4 years old. I'm so sad.

 

[Nick Vega]

Sorry to heart that!

 

[Brew12]

I killed all my fish. I added bottled bacteria before I introduced them to the new tank because the ammonia level was a bit high. This morning I tested again and all the parameters were perfectly fine. But by noon the fish were dead. The Specific Gravity had risen to 1.030. I don't know why as it was 1.024 yesterday. Those fish were 4 years old. I'm so sad.

I'm sorry you had this happen!

How long ago did you mix the salt water? Do you use a refractometer or a hydrometer to measure specific gravity?

 

[Jude135]

A refractometer. The salt was mixed on Sunday. Will that high sg reading be the problem? I'm suspicious of this rock. As I said it looked scrubbed. I wonder if it had been scrubbed or soaked in a high salt solution to kill of undesirable critters.

 

[Brew12]

A refractometer. The salt was mixed on Sunday. Will that high sg reading be the problem? I'm suspicious of this rock. As I said it looked scrubbed. I wonder if it had been scrubbed or soaked in a high salt solution to kill of undesirable critters.

I would think rapidly raising salinity like that could have caused the problem.

It may not have been intentionally soaked in a high salt solution. If the store was going under it is possible that they didn't replace the water as it evaporated. Did you test salinity before putting the fish in or only after you mixed it?

 

[Jude135]

I checked it Monday before putting the fish in, but not this morning when I did the other tests. Also the tank was 3 degrees warmer today. And maybe evaporation here, but the water level's not noticably lower.

 

[Brew12]

I checked it Monday before putting the fish in, but not this morning when I did the other tests. Also the tank was 3 degrees warmer today. And maybe evaporation here, but the water level's not noticably lower.

That would be a lot of evaporation, so it wouldn't have been in your tank. 3 degrees wouldn't matter much, either.

 

[aaron23]

Sorry to hear but a few of us suggested that you wait and test parameters in the coming days. Not surprised the fish all pooped out.

You don't know how the LFS takes care of its "live rock" it's best not to always trust them but to figure it out on your end too.

 

[Budman93]

I bought cured live rock from a LFS, ran home and put it in a tank with some live sand and my 'cycle' was either nonexistant or lasted a day or two. That's not the norm but it's possible to skip cycling. Just test and make sure the parameters are perfect for a week or two before you do anything

 

[Jude135]

Update because I'm still confused and need some suggestions. When I saw the fish dying I scrambled to net them out of the new tank and put them back into their old water. I initially lost half my livestock: a six lined wrasse, tang, and chromis. That was Tuesday. Wed. the big fire shrimp died. Thursday I lost the gobi. Today both snails are mort! I have a clown fish and a royal gramma left. The gobi had been swimming and eating, but still died? This all happened back in the small tank. I swear its like something poisoned them in the new tank. The parameters I can test for are fine. Are there other test kits, for like metals. I'm using a second had but well scrubbed out pair of tanks, the live rock I described, argonite substrata that was washed, dried and stored for 6 months or so in a bucket, RO/DI water, new DC pump with PVC plumbing, used bio balls, new filter material. Can't think of anything else in that lethal tank. I'm just running this tank and replacing evaporated water each day, and checking parameters, but afraid to put anything alive into it. Any suggestions on how to proceed would be great.

 

[DLJTWO]

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. My thoughts on this are purely my opinion and may not be what you want to here but they will definitely give you some clear direction.

I personally would take that rock out, treat like it's been sitting in the worst water imaginable for the last 6 months and clean it using the 50% water/50% bleach method. (There are about 5 steps to this) I'd ditch the sand and get all new sand as well. Any time you're going with a brand new setup, you want to leave little doubt as to what condition your foundation materials are in. I treat any rock that I get from any source as uncured... I don't care who I get it from but that's just me. I know it sounds like overkill but taking this approach leaves no doubt about what is going in your tank.

Also, what kind of test kits are you using? There has always been a great debate about test kits but I use Red Sea and they never seem to give me bad results.

Your refractometer... do you calibrate it every time you use it... if not, you should. This may not have been a factor but it's just one of those small things that should be watched. I would agree with Brew12 that the rock may have been socked unintentionally in high salt solution. Whatever you decide to do, one thing I wouldn't do is be in a rush to get livestock in there until the tank has completely cycled and shows that it has the ability to sustain life.

This is just my $.02 on the matter but I hope it at least helps.

 

[Duke4Life]

Can you run any carbon?

 

[Jude135]

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. My thoughts on this are purely my opinion and may not be what you want to here but they will definitely give you some clear direction.

I personally would take that rock out, treat like it's been sitting in the worst water imaginable for the last 6 months and clean it using the 50% water/50% bleach method. (There are about 5 steps to this) I'd ditch the sand and get all new sand as well. Any time you're going with a brand new setup, you want to leave little doubt as to what condition your foundation materials are in. I treat any rock that I get from any source as uncured... I don't care who I get it from but that's just me. I know it sounds like overkill but taking this approach leaves no doubt about what is going in your tank.

Also, what kind of test kits are you using? There has always been a great debate about test kits but I use Red Sea and they never seem to give me bad results.

Your refractometer... do you calibrate it every time you use it... if not, you should. This may not have been a factor but it's just one of those small things that should be watched. I would agree with Brew12 that the rock may have been socked unintentionally in high salt solution. Whatever you decide to do, one thing I wouldn't do is be in a rush to get livestock in there until the tank has completely cycled and shows that it has the ability to sustain life.

This is just my $.02 on the matter but I hope it at least helps.

This is very conservative advice, but I thank you for it. Bet you have not lost livestock being this careful. I've been doing this for 4 or 5 years and never had troubles like this, but then all material was new. Time to find out about that bleach treatment you refer to, and start over!

 

[Jude135]

Can you run any carbon?

Sure, I could, but haven't yet. Worth a try.

 

[Shaun Sweeney]

I had all the fish in a tank die in a very short period. Turned out, the heater had melted the bracket that held it to the back of the tank. Not completely melted and not really obvious but the poison release killed everything almost instantly.

 

[Jude135]

Wow! You know reading about all the things that go wrong is a real bummer. There are so many ways to fail, it's amazing there is so much success in this hobby.