Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[Evaaron]

I think this is amphidinum but wanted to get a few opinions.

Sorry for the blurry pictures its was the best I could do.
Adding one more just because it was interesting

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Hey everyone,

I remember seeing on one of these threads that introducing some natural live rock, muds, or rubbles into aquariums can be a solution to dinos. Have we made any progress on understanding this? I tried to find garf funk or whatever it is called like 4-6 months ago, but they don't sell it any more. I remember hearing the term fiji mud maybe not in this context, but I have tried literally everything on my 360g, and still have dinos over a year into this battle. Would love to hear if anyone has had luck with introducing some kind of live rock, rubble, mud or something from ocean, labs, or other tanks which have some kind of cultures that can help naturally battle dinos.

I hope someday we can solve this lol. It's by far the hardest battle I've ever faced in reefing. I've tried carbon dosing, blackouts, microbacter and others, hydrogen peroxide, 120w UV, skimmer on, skimmer off, snails, cucumbers, diamond gobys, silica, etc

The only things that seem to help really are

*Cucumers. Tiger Tail, Black, Black and Pink. These work but need more or for them to reproduce. I have nine 4-12" cucumbers and they barely dent my 360gallon tank.

*Silica - Definitely helps, reduces dino numbers, but doesn't eliminate them. Corals survive much higher rate with Silicia, but it doesn't wipe the dinos by any means. (keep at 1-2ppm, test weekly. Dosing 6ml/day of water glass)

*MAYBE UV for some species of dino (I have multiple). Honestly can't tell difference though.

*Diamond Goby's but I cannot ******* keep these. I've lost around 10 over the last 2 years. Mostly to jumping or wriggling out through overflows, egg crate, bullying, starving, etc. I'm done trying with these, which sucks because they do keep sand clean and turned. I have almost 100% survival with all new fish for a long time now, except these 0% survival lol.

 

[thedon986]

Hey everyone,

I remember seeing on one of these threads that introducing some natural live rock, muds, or rubbles into aquariums can be a solution to dinos. Have we made any progress on understanding this? I tried to find garf funk or whatever it is called like 4-6 months ago, but they don't sell it any more. I remember hearing the term fiji mud maybe not in this context, but I have tried literally everything on my 360g, and still have dinos over a year into this battle. Would love to hear if anyone has had luck with introducing some kind of live rock, rubble, mud or something from ocean, labs, or other tanks which have some kind of cultures that can help naturally battle dinos.

I hope someday we can solve this lol. It's by far the hardest battle I've ever faced in reefing. I've tried carbon dosing, blackouts, microbacter and others, hydrogen peroxide, 120w UV, skimmer on, skimmer off, snails, cucumbers, diamond gobys, silica, etc

The only things that seem to help really are

*Cucumers. Tiger Tail, Black, Black and Pink. These work but need more or for them to reproduce. I have nine 4-12" cucumbers and they barely dent my 360gallon tank.

*Silica - Definitely helps, reduces dino numbers, but doesn't eliminate them. Corals survive much higher rate with Silicia, but it doesn't wipe the dinos by any means. (keep at 1-2ppm, test weekly. Dosing 6ml/day of water glass)

*MAYBE UV for some species of dino (I have multiple). Honestly can't tell difference though.

*Diamond Goby's but I cannot ******* keep these. I've lost around 10 over the last 2 years. Mostly to jumping or wriggling out through overflows, egg crate, bullying, starving, etc. I'm done trying with these, which sucks because they do keep sand clean and turned. I have almost 100% survival with all new fish for a long time now, except these 0% survival lol.

If your system is struggling in terms of diversity those things help but I don’t think they’re a dino cure. Have you tried the carbon dosing at night strategy while keeping nutrients elevated? How much coral stock do you have? The option I would probably take if keeping sand is a must is removing corals and fighting with a lack of light. Or swap the entire sand bed with sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater or Gulf Live Rock? Would be expensive but combined with a lack of light to fight the dinos that remain could give you enough of a reset to overcome them. Have you tried dino-x?

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

If your system is struggling in terms of diversity those things help but I don’t think they’re a dino cure. Have you tried the carbon dosing at night strategy while keeping nutrients elevated? How much coral stock do you have? The option I would probably take if keeping sand is a must is removing corals and fighting with a lack of light. Or swap the entire sand bed with sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater or Gulf Live Rock? Would be expensive but combined with a lack of light to fight the dinos that remain could give you enough of a reset to overcome them. Have you tried dino-x?

The tank is 2 years old.

Yes I've tried carbon dosing at night while keeping nutrients elevated.

I've got ton of coral, removing it definitely not an option. I'll add photo from my phone after I post this.

I'd definitely be open to swapping sand with different sand if there was strong evidence that it has worked for many others. As an alternative why not just add sand on top of my sand ? This is exactly the type of solution I was asking about in previous post. Mud, sand, rubble, whatever.

I haven't tried dino-x. I haven't heard enough good things to think it's good idea to try. Did this work for you?

I'm kind of trying to just leave the sand alone more now and see if things balance or something over time. I know I have some species of something that eat dinos I have seen them under my scope. Maybe those will control population at some point if I don't stir or vaccuum sand bed for long enough. Doesn't seem to be working, but going to give it time. As long as I keep Silica 1-2ppm, the dinos stick to the sand mostly, and leave my coral and live rock alone.

I should note I also have to do 30% water change every 2-3 weeks or corals start dying. I strongly suspect it's dino toxins in water. I think adding carbon bags helps though as I can go 3-5 weeks without water change when I use those, but it's hard to say. I may make separate post in main forum about my weird water change requirement situation. It's definitely not nutrient issue either. Kenya tree toxins also a suspect, but I really think it's the dinos releasing toxins into water column.

Thanks for the help btw

 

[thedon986]

The tank is 2 years old.

Yes I've tried carbon dosing at night while keeping nutrients elevated.

I've got ton of coral, removing it definitely not an option. I'll add photo from my phone after I post this.

I'd definitely be open to swapping sand with different sand if there was strong evidence that it has worked for many others. As an alternative why not just add sand on top of my sand ? This is exactly the type of solution I was asking about in previous post. Mud, sand, rubble, whatever.

I haven't tried dino-x. I haven't heard enough good things to think it's good idea to try. Did this work for you?

I'm kind of trying to just leave the sand alone more now and see if things balance or something over time. I know I have some species of something that eat dinos I have seen them under my scope. Maybe those will control population at some point if I don't stir or vaccuum sand bed for long enough. Doesn't seem to be working, but going to give it time. As long as I keep Silica 1-2ppm, the dinos stick to the sand mostly, and leave my coral and live rock alone.

I should note I also have to do 30% water change every 2-3 weeks or corals start dying. I strongly suspect it's dino toxins in water. I think adding carbon bags helps though as I can go 3-5 weeks without water change when I use those, but it's hard to say. I may make separate post in main forum about my weird water change requirement situation. It's definitely not nutrient issue either. Kenya tree toxins also a suspect, but I really think it's the dinos releasing toxins into water column.

Thanks for the help btw

Maybe try a carbon reactor for more effectiveness? I’ve not tried Dino-x. I think adding a .5” layer of good live ocean sand wouldn’t hurt for sure. Will it guarantee a victory? Probably not. I’ve been going to opposite direction and adding dry aragonite to my TBS live sand (adding an Melanurus wrasse in a couple weeks and needed to sift out some larger shells for smaller grains) and when I had company last three weeks my phosphates dipped and dinos moved in to the fresh sand. I know I’ll get diatoms with the new sand though so I’m adding extra silicate and carbon dosing to see if I can beat them back.

 

[SocalS14]

OK - I had a small-cell outbreak here. Tank is four months old. Knocked them back using a combination of efforts. Reduced blue photo period (6hrs), followed by vacuum of the sand, blowing of the rocks, and cleaning glass, followed by some coral snow. Dosing has included hydrogen peroxide, MB7, and silica. I followed all of this with a few bottles over the last week of TiggerPods. I increased my feeding along with phyto every other day. We'll see if this can maintain my gains.

 

[REEFRIED!]

That’s a good call on tapering off the silica, thank you. I’ll taper off over the next week, and keep my fingers crossed.

I feel your pain when it comes to LCA. In my last tank, I had them for about seven months, and they just refused to go. In the end, I removed all of the sand, and just blew the rocks off every few days and did weekly water changes. I probably went on like that for another month or two, and then it was like a switch flicked, and one day they just didn’t grow back, and what remained faded away. That was at the seven month mark, and I was able to add sand back after another month. I couldn’t point to one thing in particular that worked, which is the annoying thing about LCA!

Good luck with your fight

I think I am going to try this. I have battled LCA for 4 months now. I am fed up. I have been dosing silica the last 6 weeks. Microscope shows some added diatoms but not what I was hoping for.

 

[AtlanticGail]

Does this look like Amphidinium (Small Cell)?
Sorry for poor quality.

 

[shiver905]

Can I get an Id please

 

[shiver905]

will this sodium silicate work?

 

[Mercury2234]

Hello everyone - unfortunately I am also battling with Dinos for the past 5-6 weeks. This week though, I’ve noticed that Cyano is starting to take over the tank. Im assuming that’s a good thing since Cyano is covering the places where the Dinos resided? Crossing my fingers the tank is moving in the right direction.

If yes, when can I start cleaning the Cyano and do water changes? My nutrients have been stable .10 phosphate and 12 Nitrate (previously 0/0) for the past two weeks. I’ve been dosing NeoPhos, Silica, NeoNitro, along with Phyto and MicroBacter7.

Corals and fish seems ok for now but I’m worried that because I haven’t done a water change in 5 weeks that the water quality has gotten poorer and can expose my fish to disease (e.g., bacterial). Is that concern warranted?

Thanks in advance for any feedbacks

Pic #1: tank today
Pic #2 tank before infested with Dino’s

 

[threebuoys]

Do you have the ability to view under a microscope? That would be helpful in confirming what it is.

 

[kara13]

I am redoing my tank. I had an anemone and leather tank for 10 years. No pests or issues. Decided I wanted to switch to different corals. Gave away everything except sand. Bought new dry rocks from local store. Cycled 3 months. Added a few fish and a few corals. Water parameters are within normal ranges.
After 4 months I now have confirmed with microscope Large Cell Amphidinium. Though only a few show up in the scope viewing area. Sand is definitely red. Gets better for an hour after a tank cleaning then comes right back. No algae on rocks. Dinos are not visible on rocks.
My questions:

1. Did the dinos come from the new rocks?
2. If I take the rocks out and soak in citric acid and clean them and take out all sand, will that rid the tank of the dinos?

Thank you in advance.

 

[thedon986]

I am redoing my tank. I had an anemone and leather tank for 10 years. No pests or issues. Decided I wanted to switch to different corals. Gave away everything except sand. Bought new dry rocks from local store. Cycled 3 months. Added a few fish and a few corals. Water parameters are within normal ranges.
After 4 months I now have confirmed with microscope Large Cell Amphidinium. Though only a few show up in the scope viewing area. Sand is definitely red. Gets better for an hour after a tank cleaning then comes right back. No algae on rocks. Dinos are not visible on rocks.
My questions:

1. Did the dinos come from the new rocks?
2. If I take the rocks out and soak in citric acid and clean them and take out all sand, will that rid the tank of the dinos?

Thank you in advance.

No the dinos were always there they just stepped in due to lack of competition (other established good bacteria, microfauna etc) and probably low nitrate and/or phosphate. There’s no going back now unless you start completely over. I’ve gone bare bottom, no sand for six months and they came back as soon as I added sand back.

Your best path forward now is raising nitrate and phosphate to substantial levels, dosing 1ml per 50 gal per day of 40% sodium silicate until you see more diatoms than dinos on the microscope slides then you can reduce the dose a bit but keep it up for at least 4 weeks without letting nitrate and phosphate decline and then taper off the dose and see how it goes. Microbacter7 and other bacteria dosing won’t hurt but not totally necessary.

 

[Sylvester]

Yes, I would like to think that you did it: with the dosage of silica there were conditions for diatoms to grow, they grew, they dominated the dinoflagellates and practically eliminated them (allelopathy, maybe?).

Congratulations

How long till you were Dino free?

 

[Sylvester]

Anyone tried dino-x before? I’m not making any headway

I tried Dino X, and it worked for the time being. It killed 3 SPS frags and came back after 2 months. I feel like it was a harsh product to use