Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[agol77]

To be safe. I would try to pull back on the Silica slowly personally. You said you don't see diatoms, but they may be there, and if you pull back right away it may just result in dinos coming in to fill that void. Hopefully it's the rubble that fixed things, and stays fixed. If it works, I bet that company will make a fortune because thus far we have no other options besides UV, Silica, and blackout/peroxide which are only temporary for many/most I think. I'm like 1 full year or more into dino battle and I've tried everything lol.

That’s a good call on tapering off the silica, thank you. I’ll taper off over the next week, and keep my fingers crossed.

I feel your pain when it comes to LCA. In my last tank, I had them for about seven months, and they just refused to go. In the end, I removed all of the sand, and just blew the rocks off every few days and did weekly water changes. I probably went on like that for another month or two, and then it was like a switch flicked, and one day they just didn’t grow back, and what remained faded away. That was at the seven month mark, and I was able to add sand back after another month. I couldn’t point to one thing in particular that worked, which is the annoying thing about LCA!

Good luck with your fight

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

That’s a good call on tapering off the silica, thank you. I’ll taper off over the next week, and keep my fingers crossed.

I feel your pain when it comes to LCA. In my last tank, I had them for about seven months, and they just refused to go. In the end, I removed all of the sand, and just blew the rocks off every few days and did weekly water changes. I probably went on like that for another month or two, and then it was like a switch flicked, and one day they just didn’t grow back, and what remained faded away. That was at the seven month mark, and I was able to add sand back after another month. I couldn’t point to one thing in particular that worked, which is the annoying thing about LCA!

Good luck with your fight

I would even consider more than a week. Every time I’ve pulled back on Silica they come back. First time I think I did over a week, then like a month. I may try to pull back again slower or something, but they always come back for me. I know Taricha recommends not pulling back fast.

 

[Gribbles]

Does this look like amphidinium to you?

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Does this look like amphidinium to you?

No. Osteoporosis I think. They’re the more obvious one they have that almond shape.

 

[FlyinAg]

Found something interesting that may have been causing or prolonging my dinos: RO water.

I noticed some oddities with water I was buying from a private fish dealer. At first I thought the debris in the water was somehow from me stacking the buckets, or perhaps from the the underside of the lids. Last week I went to go get a bucket from the garage to top off my ATO and there were algal looking clumps in it, just like what dinos look like in a specimen cup after you do the shake test and they coagulate.

I tested the water and phosphates were very high. I looked in my ATO reservoir and there was some funkiness in there including what looked like a tiny blood worm of some sort! Anyways, I will go back to buying water from a trusted LFS, even if they are across town which is why I made the switch.

I did a 20% water change last weekend by doing a heavy sand vacuum. This week has actually looked much better. I just did another one today. I know that breaks the no water change paradigm however I have been closely monitoring my nitrates and phosphates were quite high. I have also been dosing microbacter 7 and clean. Normally I would put that in high flow but I've actually been turning the pumps off and pouring the dose over my sandy areas and hopes that the bacteria will settle in the trouble spots.

My corals are actually making improvement just within the last week so hopefully I am on to something.

Big lessoned: Don't assume your RO source is pristine, trust but verify! This may not be the root cause of the problem but I bet it certainly isn't helping.

 

[Steve2020]

About a year ago I had LCA dino's on my shallow sand bed that took about 3mo to eradicate. 2mo ago they came back but not as bad. From what I understand you can never get rid of dino's completely and they may come back which they did. I probably should of continued the eradication process over a longer period of time than I did. I started the process again but this time I decided to slowly remove all my sand from the tank and sanitize it. I will be doing the final sand removal in a few days and sanitize. I will be keeping a small section of sand on the right side of the tank ( circled in attached photo ), because that is where my Diamond Goby has made his home. That area of sand shows no LCA visually or under a scope and is probably kept clean because the Goby is always sifting in that area of the tank only. I plan one making a barrier in the Goby's area ( front and back ) by gluing together some rubble rock I have on hand to keep that sand in that area only.
Should I continue my eradication process once all the sand is removed and for how long before adding the sand back into the tank? My initial plan is to not put the sand back in for at least a month unless there is a different recommendation from the experts on this site.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

About a year ago I had LCA dino's on my shallow sand bed that took about 3mo to eradicate. 2mo ago they came back but not as bad. From what I understand you can never get rid of dino's completely and they may come back which they did. I probably should of continued the eradication process over a longer period of time than I did. I started the process again but this time I decided to slowly remove all my sand from the tank and sanitize it. I will be doing the final sand removal in a few days and sanitize. I will be keeping a small section of sand on the right side of the tank ( circled in attached photo ), because that is where my Diamond Goby has made his home. That area of sand shows no LCA visually or under a scope and is probably kept clean because the Goby is always sifting in that area of the tank only. I plan one making a barrier in the Goby's area ( front and back ) by gluing together some rubble rock I have on hand to keep that sand in that area only.
Should I continue my eradication process once all the sand is removed and for how long before adding the sand back into the tank? My initial plan is to not put the sand back in for at least a month unless there is a different recommendation from the experts on this site.

Nice tank. How do you like growing GSP on backwall like that? Is it 300g?

As for removing and sanitizing sand. I'm no expert on this aspect, but I would think better is to leave sand in, because when you sanitize it you kill the good and bad, the bad will likely just repopulate.

When I add new rocks into the tank, dino take home there quickly. Even if the rocks come from the same tanks sump (sandless), they take months to mature in the DT for whatever reason.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Found something interesting that may have been causing or prolonging my dinos: RO water.

I noticed some oddities with water I was buying from a private fish dealer. At first I thought the debris in the water was somehow from me stacking the buckets, or perhaps from the the underside of the lids. Last week I went to go get a bucket from the garage to top off my ATO and there were algal looking clumps in it, just like what dinos look like in a specimen cup after you do the shake test and they coagulate.

I tested the water and phosphates were very high. I looked in my ATO reservoir and there was some funkiness in there including what looked like a tiny blood worm of some sort! Anyways, I will go back to buying water from a trusted LFS, even if they are across town which is why I made the switch.

I did a 20% water change last weekend by doing a heavy sand vacuum. This week has actually looked much better. I just did another one today. I know that breaks the no water change paradigm however I have been closely monitoring my nitrates and phosphates were quite high. I have also been dosing microbacter 7 and clean. Normally I would put that in high flow but I've actually been turning the pumps off and pouring the dose over my sandy areas and hopes that the bacteria will settle in the trouble spots.

My corals are actually making improvement just within the last week so hopefully I am on to something.

Big lessoned: Don't assume your RO source is pristine, trust but verify! This may not be the root cause of the problem but I bet it certainly isn't helping.

Curious, why don't you setup your own RODI? They're relatively cheap, only annoyance is you have to put it somewhere. Mine is on side of my kitchen with my 100g water change reservoir which is ugly for our fancy house LOL, but people like it because they see how serious I am about the aquarium. Kind of fun lol.

 

[Steve2020]

Nice tank. How do you like growing GSP on backwall like that? Is it 300g?

As for removing and sanitizing sand. I'm no expert on this aspect, but I would think better is to leave sand in, because when you sanitize it you kill the good and bad, the bad will likely just repopulate.

When I add new rocks into the tank, dino take home there quickly. Even if the rocks come from the same tanks sump (sandless), they take months to mature in the DT for whatever reason.

Appreciate your feedback!

Tank is 84x30x24 and the total water volume tank plus sump is 255gal +/- 5 gal. Water volume was measured during the initial fill with 250lbs of rock and 120 pounds of sand ( 1" sand bed ). I like the GSP on the back wall. Very easy to control if need be.

I have never had Dino's on my rocks except for maybe a little on the base of the rock where the sand meets but have never seen any under a scope when I scraped and syphoned some water out.

With 250lbs of rock, and I initially only had a 1" sand bed, which some was calcified, mostly in the caves, I believe most of good stuff is in my rock scape. After removing most of the sand I have seen no change in nutrients and to be on the safe side I have been checking Ammonia and Nitrite and all is good ( ZERO ).
Just an FYI, I run a very large dual chamber 5ft tall DND that houses both Aerobic and Anaerobic Bacteria.

I intend to seed the sanitized sand for a few weeks prior to putting it back in the tank.
I understand I will more than likely get some Diatom's on the sanitized sand but honestly that is not a big deal to me.

I have also contemplated going bare bottom except for the Gobies area but I am not sure how to mount some corals that have taco shaped skeletons that most say place on the sand.

Attached photo is the worse the Diatoms got in my tank during the cycle.

 

[FlyinAg]

Curious, why don't you setup your own RODI? They're relatively cheap, only annoyance is you have to put it somewhere. Mine is on side of my kitchen with my 100g water change reservoir which is ugly for our fancy house LOL, but people like it because they see how serious I am about the aquarium. Kind of fun lol.

Oh I dunno. I used to have one the first time I was in this hobby. I guess I did not anticipate how much top off water you need with an open top, which I never had previously. It would definitely pay for itself (the RO setup). Guess it comes down to a place to have it setup and just making the investment... I thought about doing a nice under the sink one that has one of those 5 gallon reservoirs for drinking and making RO for the tank. I only have a 25 gallon so its not like I need a trashcan of water on hand.

In other news, still battling the dinos. They are not as bad, and I actually have some green cyano (microscope confirmed) competing with it on the sand. The cyano is also on the rocks. There is an increased amount of diatoms on the glass. I am leaving 3 of 4 sides dirty because the glass is all diatom film. I am not even mad about the cyano at this point lol. It sort of matches my green coraline honestly lol. It seems to be out competing the dinos on the sand as well. I am doing little water changes to vacuum out the dinos while leaving the cyano, hoping it will smother it. Thinking of doing some spongexcel since dosing silicates is the last thing I have not tried.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Oh I dunno. I used to have one the first time I was in this hobby. I guess I did not anticipate how much top off water you need with an open top, which I never had previously. It would definitely pay for itself (the RO setup). Guess it comes down to a place to have it setup and just making the investment... I thought about doing a nice under the sink one that has one of those 5 gallon reservoirs for drinking and making RO for the tank. I only have a 25 gallon so its not like I need a trashcan of water on hand.

In other news, still battling the dinos. They are not as bad, and I actually have some green cyano (microscope confirmed) competing with it on the sand. The cyano is also on the rocks. There is an increased amount of diatoms on the glass. I am leaving 3 of 4 sides dirty because the glass is all diatom film. I am not even mad about the cyano at this point lol. It sort of matches my green coraline honestly lol. It seems to be out competing the dinos on the sand as well. I am doing little water changes to vacuum out the dinos while leaving the cyano, hoping it will smother it. Thinking of doing some spongexcel since dosing silicates is the last thing I have not tried.

Silica is legit the only thing that works for me and I’ve tried everything else lol. The problem is 1. I can’t stop the Silica without the Dino’s roaring back, and 2. Diatoms are also ugly, but thankfully non toxic. Dinos kill my coral. Diatoms dont.

 

[Oggiewok]

I am around 7 months into combating LCA, and with no real end in sight. This is fine, I'd accepted this would take a while - however I ran into something strange with todays samples. I've attacbed 2 pictues of the sandbed, still mostly LCA with some diatoms (and some sort of star thing, which I assume is another diatom - I also took a smaller sample of the crysophates growing on the rockwork, and found that the water sample there was brimming with pizza diatoms! Why is they congregating on the rockwork, and not my sand.

Currently , I am doing the following:
Daily 1.2ml silicate
Wednesday - AF Lifesource Mud
Friday - MB7
Daily Phyto
Monthly 1L Pods.
Lighting 0630-12:30 Main Schedule
1830-2130 - Moon Schedule

Zero Water changes.

Todays Hanna result:
PO4 - 0.07
NO3 - 24.9
2 ICP Tests also added (most recent was last month)

Any Help/Advice would be appreciated, after 7 months and lord knows how much money spent on various additives, I would have expected to have seen some sort of improvement - but the sandbed appears to be getting worse, not better.

I did take some of the algae and buried it into the sandbed, hopeing to perhaps "seed" that area with diatoms - but at this point im willing to try anything.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

I am around 7 months into combating LCA, and with no real end in sight. This is fine, I'd accepted this would take a while - however I ran into something strange with todays samples. I've attacbed 2 pictues of the sandbed, still mostly LCA with some diatoms (and some sort of star thing, which I assume is another diatom - I also took a smaller sample of the crysophates growing on the rockwork, and found that the water sample there was brimming with pizza diatoms! Why is they congregating on the rockwork, and not my sand.

Currently , I am doing the following:
Daily 1.2ml silicate
Wednesday - AF Lifesource Mud
Friday - MB7
Daily Phyto
Monthly 1L Pods.
Lighting 0630-12:30 Main Schedule
1830-2130 - Moon Schedule

Zero Water changes.

Todays Hanna result:
PO4 - 0.07
NO3 - 24.9
2 ICP Tests also added (most recent was last month)

Any Help/Advice would be appreciated, after 7 months and lord knows how much money spent on various additives, I would have expected to have seen some sort of improvement - but the sandbed appears to be getting worse, not better.

I did take some of the algae and buried it into the sandbed, hopeing to perhaps "seed" that area with diatoms - but at this point im willing to try anything.

What are those strands? algae? cyano?

 

[Oggiewok]

What are those strands? algae? cyano?

I think its crysophytes, probably going turbo mode from the dosing silicates into the tank.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

I think its crysophytes, probably going turbo mode from the dosing silicates into the tank.

Crysophytes are small and look like dinos. I'm talking about the long straight strands in microscope images. They look like algae or something.

See below for crysophytes:

Chrysophytes, AKA "Golden Algae" - How to identify, treat and remove it from your tank!

A wikipedia image for chrysophytes. For some time, I've been dealing with a mystery ailment in my aquarium. A wispy, slimy mass grew on almost every exposed area of my tank - no matter what I had tried, it kept coming back and stubbornly stuck with me for months. I started my current tank in...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Oggiewok]

Crysophytes are small and look like dinos. I'm talking about the long straight strands in microscope images. They look like algae or something.

See below for crysophytes:

Chrysophytes, AKA "Golden Algae" - How to identify, treat and remove it from your tank!

A wikipedia image for chrysophytes. For some time, I've been dealing with a mystery ailment in my aquarium. A wispy, slimy mass grew on almost every exposed area of my tank - no matter what I had tried, it kept coming back and stubbornly stuck with me for months. I started my current tank in...

www.reef2reef.com

Learn something new every day. Its some sort of algae in that case, I got confused when "golden algae" was mentioned lol.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Anyone know what I’m seeing here? Dinos, diatoms, and is the other stuff cyano or?

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Anyone know what I’m seeing here? Dinos, diatoms, and is the other stuff cyano or?

Anyone know what I’m seeing here? Dinos, diatoms, and is the other stuff cyano or?

Bump. Here are photos of the sand also:

Trying to decide if I should use chemiclean. Waiting for cyano to sort itself out has never worked for me and has almost killed corals which were already weakened by Dino’s I think.

 

[REEFRIED!]

So I have not yet read through this entire thread. I am on page 11. I understand the goal here, trying to first get nutrients stable at desired levels. Then dose silica to encourage diatom bloom, to out compete Dino’s. That makes sense. My question is, if this works what do we do to get rid of the diatoms after? Assuming diatoms and Dino’s both feed off of the same things, when and if we get rid of Dino’s, then diatoms wouldn’t that leave an opening for either or both to come back? What fills their void long term? I understand if people are having issues on a new tank, and or a dry rock, dry sand tank. They may not have the micro fauna established to also help compete with Dino’s. But what about the people who are having issues in a 2 year old tank? They are obviously missing some type of biodiversity that allows Dino’s to flourish. What will keep them away?

 

[REEFRIED!]

Also is sponge excel chunky? Mine is sort of creamy, or at least has white bits in it. Did I get a bad bottle?