Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[CDavmd]

Excellent post. I especially love the timeline showing the different phases in the bloom / recovery. Well done!

Thank you! Hopefully the operative word is correct- "done"! LOL

 

[dwest]

Another Update:

So still no signs of Dino's over the past month. Hair algae really started getting out of control despite my Tang munching away. I had that period described above with really high phosphates and my corals really did n0t like that, in particular my Goniapora frags which all basically closed up and looked dead. I continued with feeding the fish and tank but cut back a little. I also did a pretty thorough cleaning blasting the rock of detritus and such. I also used a little Dr. Tims refresh for 2 weeks and this helped knock down the Nitrates and Phosphates to more reasonable levels. I think I have found a sweet spot in terms of feeding and phosphate/Nitrate levels not getting out of control. Currently my Nitrates are in the 4-8 range and FINALLY my phosphates are running 0.06 to 0.15. The algae has receded some but there are still patches on the rock here and there and on some stony corals. Best of all though my corals are starting to look healthy again and the Goni frags are finally starting to peek out again. Things seem to be on the right track.

I decided it was time to start re-introducing sand again. I picked up some Carib sea Tonga mesoflakes and some pods from Florida pets. I added a little bit of sand in the bare areas up front. Just enough to coat at most 1/2 an inch. Dumped in a lot of Pods in the dark with pumps off and let them find there places over night. Tank is looking great this morning and parameters are spot on.

I'm going to continue testing Phosphate daily this week and then start every other if things stay stable. Really would like to get keep them in this range and allow more of the turf algae to recede.

Fingers crossed that the Dino's are back in there proper food web location!!

Here's a picture of the Tank this morning-

Here's my data to date:

Your tank is looking great! What are your plans for uv long term? How is it plummed now, I do not see it in your tank.

 

[dwest]

Another Update:

So still no signs of Dino's over the past month. Hair algae really started getting out of control despite my Tang munching away. I had that period described above with really high phosphates and my corals really did n0t like that, in particular my Goniapora frags which all basically closed up and looked dead. I continued with feeding the fish and tank but cut back a little. I also did a pretty thorough cleaning blasting the rock of detritus and such. I also used a little Dr. Tims refresh for 2 weeks and this helped knock down the Nitrates and Phosphates to more reasonable levels. I think I have found a sweet spot in terms of feeding and phosphate/Nitrate levels not getting out of control. Currently my Nitrates are in the 4-8 range and FINALLY my phosphates are running 0.06 to 0.15. The algae has receded some but there are still patches on the rock here and there and on some stony corals. Best of all though my corals are starting to look healthy again and the Goni frags are finally starting to peek out again. Things seem to be on the right track.

I decided it was time to start re-introducing sand again. I picked up some Carib sea Tonga mesoflakes and some pods from Florida pets. I added a little bit of sand in the bare areas up front. Just enough to coat at most 1/2 an inch. Dumped in a lot of Pods in the dark with pumps off and let them find there places over night. Tank is looking great this morning and parameters are spot on.

I'm going to continue testing Phosphate daily this week and then start every other if things stay stable. Really would like to get keep them in this range and allow more of the turf algae to recede.

Fingers crossed that the Dino's are back in there proper food web location!!

Here's a picture of the Tank this morning-

Here's my data to date:

Interestingly, my nitrates went down when I removed my sand...

 

[CDavmd]

Your tank is looking great! What are your plans for uv long term? How is it plummed now, I do not see it in your tank.

Thanks! I have just a small unit made for biocubes. It’s connected to a small pump and just sitting in my sump. It’s so small that I don’t honestly think it was much of a factor but it couldn’t hurt.

I’ll probably remove it at some point when convinced they are truly gone.

 

[Dj City]

I am having a VERY hard time with the idea of dosing silicates to my tank to promote the growth of something else I don't want in my tank.
Especially since it's hard to get silicates OUT once they are in your sand and rock.

There has got to be another route to killing dinos.

Managing N and P are not that difficult but managing Si is quite a challenge.

 

[Dj City]

This is what I'm working with.
What is it and how do I did myself of it?

 

[Dj City]

Video of what I have going on.
Is a bad video but it's what I was able to get.

 

[Dj City]

Hello?
Can anyone confirm what kind of dinos I'm dealing with or if they are dinos at all?

 

[dwest]

Hello?
Can anyone confirm what kind of dinos I'm dealing with or if they are dinos at all?

Looks like dinos to me. I cannot id them.

@taricha?

 

[ChelseaPete]

Hello?
Can anyone confirm what kind of dinos I'm dealing with or if they are dinos at all?

Looks like amphidinium to me, though I'm certainly no expert. If so, you are in the right thread. Start at page 1 and read it through. You will see that there is no one simple solution to this problem and that it has driven some aquarists mad. I'm dealing with an outbreak myself. We are all in the same boat here. Try the measures that have been reported successful and see how it goes. Post your results to help out others. That's about as much help as I can give you, unfortunately.

 

[taricha]

Video of what I have going on.
Is a bad video but it's what I was able to get.

You definitely have amphidinium. It looks like large cell and small cell amphidinium.
Actually two different kinds. The large cell is the more common and never leaves the sand. The small cell amphidinium types do occasionally go into the water, and so they can be slightly affected by UV, but they also spend most of their time in the sand.

 

[Dj City]

What I have done so far since starting to read this thread...
ICP Test!
I am waiting for results but my last test showed very low phosphorous and slightly low phosphates.
I do not have a phosphate test yet so i'm waiting for the ICP to come back before I start dosing. My plan is to dose Seachem Flourish Phosphorous (if needed).
My nitrates are in a medium to high range.

I purchased an automatic feeder and increased feeding. I feed NLS spectrum and Hakari seaweed extreme pellets.

I reinstated my UV. I have the Pentari Smart 40 UV.
No pump. It is gravity fed from the display to the sump. The outlet is going into my fuge when i'm filtering the water through the UV. I also use the UV as a sand vac. I take the inlet and vacuum the sand/dinos directly through the UV. I have the outlet going to the filter sock when I directly siphon the sand and dinos through the UV.
The flow rate through the UV is 120GPH

That's it for now until I have a better plan and course of action.

 

[Dj City]

110gal Mixed Reef
Wednesday 07/04 11:49 AM
Temperature: 77.7 °F
pH: 7.8
Salinity: 1.023 SG
Alkalinity: 11 dKH
Calcium: 480 ppm
Magnesium: 1455 ppm
Notes: Silicate between 0.1 and 0.25 per salifert test
Phosphate 0.0 per API test
Nitrates about 20 per API test

 

[Dj City]

I'm testing the vacuuming of dinos through the UV sterilizer and will post what I find.

I'm using gravity only. No pump.

My follow rate gravity fed is 120gph.
While vacuuming, the outlet drains into my 100 micron filter sock. I have been thinking about possibly moving the outlet to the skimmer section while vacuuming in the hopes of the skimmer grabbing the dead / dying / damaged dinos.
The other idea is doubling up the filter sock. putting one sock inside the other in the hopes of catching more of whatever goes through.

I might even use both ideas together by putting the doubled up filter sock in the skimmer section while vacuuming.

Im wondering what time is best to vacuum them through the UV. During the day when they can be seen or at night when they can't be seen?

What makes them disappear at night?

 

[Dj City]

I have only UV vacuumed the sand/dinos twice so far but it is too early to tell if there is any difference.
I did it on Sunday and today. Both times were with lights on and dinos visible.
The dang things disappear as soon as they are touched so I can't confirm I'm getting them. Especially since the flow is so low at only 120gph through the UV.

That being said, the dinos "may" be coming back a little slower than they have in the past but that could just be because of the sandbed being disturbed.

I have not raised phosphate yet because I don't have the phosphate test yet.

Time will tell if the UV vac is working and I will keep both threads updated.

 

[CDavmd]

Curious as which Hanna Si checker everyone is using, High range or Low range?

 

[piehunter]

Stripped the main tank down and have moved the little remaining live stock to a small holding tank in the meantime .. Main tank has been scrubbed and cleaned and has been drying for the past few days likewise the rock has been sitting in ro for the last week and being hosed every couple of days .. getting it ready before I start curing it with some live rock to seed it and help biodiversity before re setting the tank up ..

My holding tank was setup using water from main tank and small bit of liverock also from the main tank infected .. nothing was dipped or messed with before moving across as I didn’t want cause a cycle to happen and risk anything ..

So after a few days they reappeared and are slowly starting to regain a foothold so I’m looking to goto war this time in a very small tank .. tempted to get back to silicate dosing and change 100% of the water volume over a few days to be sure no trace elements are holding diatom growth back and tempted to hook the uv up as it’s crazy overkill for a tank this small and should make a dent in them for sure

 

[bh750]

I have only UV vacuumed the sand/dinos twice so far but it is too early to tell if there is any difference.
I did it on Sunday and today. Both times were with lights on and dinos visible.
The dang things disappear as soon as they are touched so I can't confirm I'm getting them. Especially since the flow is so low at only 120gph through the UV.

That being said, the dinos "may" be coming back a little slower than they have in the past but that could just be because of the sandbed being disturbed.

I have not raised phosphate yet because I don't have the phosphate test yet.

Time will tell if the UV vac is working and I will keep both threads updated.

Hi DJ City,

Really interesting approach with vacuuming using the UV. Couple quick thoughts come to mind.

1) be careful. My UV directions state that sand and debris should be avoided and can impact the performance.

2) A 100 micron sock is not enough to catch the Dino's. I believe you need to be at 10 microns or less.

Sadly You may be pulling in Dino's and sending them back to your system with this method :-(

 

[Dj City]

I'm thinking that if the dinos are dead or damaged to where they can't reproduce, it would not really matter if they are returned to the system.
I also thought the skimmer might catch at least some of them as well.
Where can I find a 10 micron or less 7 inch sock?

 

[piehunter]

Stripped the main tank down and have moved the little remaining live stock to a small holding tank in the meantime .. Main tank has been scrubbed and cleaned and has been drying for the past few days likewise the rock has been sitting in ro for the last week and being hosed every couple of days .. getting it ready before I start curing it with some live rock to seed it and help biodiversity before re setting the tank up ..

My holding tank was setup using water from main tank and small bit of liverock also from the main tank infected .. nothing was dipped or messed with before moving across as I didn’t want cause a cycle to happen and risk anything ..

So after a few days they reappeared and are slowly starting to regain a foothold so I’m looking to goto war this time in a very small tank .. tempted to get back to silicate dosing and change 100% of the water volume over a few days to be sure no trace elements are holding diatom growth back and tempted to hook the uv up as it’s crazy overkill for a tank this small and should make a dent in them for sure

Bit of a quick update but it seems to be a full blown diatom bloom and not dinos after all ... well i hope so but it def looks like diatoms as they are rice shaped .. if anyone could id them it would be great thanks