Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

What is po4 and no3 at consistently? Also maintenance schedule? I am very confident no one has had Dino's longer than me lol.
PO4 is in the .08 range, Nitrate is coming in between 5-10, Alk is ~8.1, MG is 1300. Over the months I've tried lots of things but ultimately have been keeping them at bay with lots of sand cleaning 2x/wk, which is a pain! Other than that...protein skimmer running full time, small algae reactor running every night, strong flow (with regularly cleaned pumps), and a AquaUV 57 in the sump return line. I just ordered a second AquaUV 57 that I'm going to connect direct to/from display with a low flow MJ1200 to see if that helps while i'm also dosing silicates.
 
Thanks, Can you confirm a couple of things on what you did? did you vacuum your sand bed? I do it weekly during my 15% water change.

Sure.
I did siphon out the top layer of the affected sand. I did this almost every day for about a week. You will lose some sand but you can always add it back later on after you've been clear for a while. Outside of that once a week I did a 20-30% water change and siphoned 1/3 of the sand bed going all the way down to glass.

The most important part is manual removal I kept scrubbing the power heads and affected areas of the rocks right before my water change. But if you don't have stability on nutrients and the big three I wouldn't start this cleaning yet. I did not find any positive results from sand stirring, it only made the spread worse.

I'm not sure if you're dosing anything but stop all bacteria dosing, lighing changes, temp changes, or anything else you wouldn't do to a healthy tank. My nitrates were between 10 to 15 in my phosphates were .2 consistently using liquid phosphate and liquid nitrate not coral powder foods or fish food.

Once I cut all dosing and changes etc, for a few weeks I thought I made the wrong choice. Things got worse in the tank. Then once it started to clear another wave came. This happened 3 times but each wave was less severe then the one prior. Then cyano came and I believe the cyano was due to the decaying and dead Dino's as my sand bed was clean of detritus.

Time is your best friend.
 
PO4 is in the .08 range, Nitrate is coming in between 5-10, Alk is ~8.1, MG is 1300. Over the months I've tried lots of things but ultimately have been keeping them at bay with lots of sand cleaning 2x/wk, which is a pain! Other than that...protein skimmer running full time, small algae reactor running every night, strong flow (with regularly cleaned pumps), and a AquaUV 57 in the sump return line. I just ordered a second AquaUV 57 that I'm going to connect direct to/from display with a low flow MJ1200 to see if that helps while i'm also dosing silicates.

Do you have algae growth in display? I had to clean my glass twice a day. I knew things were going in the right direction when the glass film went from brown to green.
 
i do need to do a daily glass wipe but nothing excessive. Definitely need more algea to outcompete them for sure...
 
so i have some green hair algae growing on my return nozzle. I scraped some off and put under the scope. Are these triangle shapes diatoms? It doesn't surprise me because my rodi crapped out and i am sure silicates were getting through. Do tanks with dinos normally show signs of diatoms before silica is dosed? i had high nutrients when my dinos appeared.

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100ug/L Si would be ~0.2ppm SiO2 on the hanna meter, btw.
I read on a Facebook thread that the Hanna Silica low range tester doesn't work on Saltwater, only Freshwater. I've been using it on my reef tank and am getting what seems like logical readings (after doing i'm increasing approximately what this thread suggests I should be, etc.). What's the group's thoughts on this?
 
I’ve been suffering with dinoflagellates for around two years or so in my 84 litre tank! I haven’t made a positive ID on what species it is? I attribute it to having undetectable levels of nitrate and phosphate. I’ve increased nitrate to 10ppm for around three by dosing potassium nitrate, have stopped dosing lanthanum and removed phosguard. I installed a 13 watt uv steriliser directly into the back of my tank (rear sump) around 2 weeks ago. I added several large clumps of Ulva lactuca on the 14th of August (I’m in the UK so was able to source it locally). I’ll update if or when it makes a difference?
 
Hi all. I just wanted to share that I’ve now been free of Amphidinium for a month, after battling it for the past year. I’ll share what’s changed in the tank, and what methods I tried to get rid of it.

I set this tank up in Dec 2019, restarting it due to Dino in the previous set up killing off all my corals. They soon returned in the new set up, which was a real kick in the you-know-what. The first and second photos here were taken in April 2020. It shows the Dino on the sand, and not long after this I removed the sand, but it spread on to the rocks.

Up to this point I tried a lot of different things; weekly 25% water changes, followed by no water changes, dosing nitrates and phosphates, dosing silicates, dosing bacteria, feeding more, feeding less, 2x five day black outs, regular turkey basting, then no basting, adding copepods regularly, and adding live rock from an established tank.

Nothing worked. The corals looked miserable and weren’t really growing, and I’d spend a couple of hours cleaning everything and a couple of days later the rocks would be covered again.

A couple of months ago (ish), I decided to change my ATI Coral Plus bulb for another Blue Plus bulb (tank has only softies and is lit by twin T5s and two TMC Aquaray LEDs. The light change seemed to knock the Dino back almost straight away, but after a couple of weeks they started to come back, although not as bad. It was at this time I fell in to a consistent maintenance routine with the tank and stopped changing things.

I’m a teacher and the tank is in my classroom, and due to lockdown I’ve been working from home. Myself and a colleague have shared the job of going in to work to feed the fish (we have 20 tanks of mostly freshwater) and do maintenance. Because of this, the tank has been fed just once a day, five or six days a week, and I’ve done a 30% water change every two weeks. After each water change I add a tiny amount of Vibrant (1/5 the recommended dose) and that’s it. The corals have really taken off, particularly the Xenia and Palys, and I’ve not seen any signs of Dino for the past month. I’m even thinking about adding sand back in to the tank next week.

The third photo was taken today. I last did a water change last week, and the only maintenance I did today was rinse out the mechanical filter sponge, wipe the front glass and feed the fish. It’s quite sad, but I’m still delighted when the filter sponge just gives off grey detritus, rather than the dark brown Dino that used to clog it up.

I have no idea what I’ve learnt from this battle! I’m wondering if they’ve gone away because the tank has just finally matured after running for nine months, or if the bulb change caused the corals to grow faster which led to more competition with the Dinos, or if the consistent hands off approach over the past few months created more stability. Or maybe none of the above.

I’m sure they’re still in there somewhere, and will come back if/when I get complacent, but for now I’m happy.

Good luck with your own battle

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I read on a Facebook thread that the Hanna Silica low range tester doesn't work on Saltwater, only Freshwater. I've been using it on my reef tank and am getting what seems like logical readings
It's not true that it "doesn't work" in saltwater. It is true that hanna does not approve/recommend it for saltwater use. It works really well and maybe under-measures by 10% in saltwater. This is outside of Hanna's stated uncertainties and probably why they say it's not approved for SW.
but it's still the best kit we have for Si. The others I've seen do much worse.

I set this tank up in Dec 2019, restarting it due to Dino in the previous set up killing off all my corals. They soon returned in the new set up, which was a real kick in the you-know-what.
Just emphasizing, this is something that happens a lot. Why I don't recommend a re-start. It rarely gives people the dino-free tank they assume it will, and increases frustration dramatically.

I have no idea what I’ve learnt from this battle! I’m wondering if they’ve gone away because the tank has just finally matured after running for nine months

Stability and consistent manual removal never hurt anything.
 
so i have some green hair algae growing on my return nozzle. I scraped some off and put under the scope. Are these triangle shapes diatoms? It doesn't surprise me because my rodi crapped out and i am sure silicates were getting through. Do tanks with dinos normally show signs of diatoms before silica is dosed? i had high nutrients when my dinos appeared.

1597366404467.png
everything in the pic looks like diatoms.
 
Can someone help me out with dosing? I have a 40% Sodium Silicate solution and a 139 total water volume tank. I see some people talking about dosing extremely tiny amounts (0.2ml) and other people are dosing much more (10+ml). What's a reasonable amount to be dosing daily for a tank of this size?
 
So something appears to have worked, as the dinoflagellates have definitely reduced, massively. The stuff was even smothering the only snail I had left, the snail is finally free from the wretched stuff, and it’s shell is finally clean & pristine. Not sure whether it’s the Ulva, adding a UV steriliser, increasing nutrients, killing the protein skimmer or simply time? Just need to eradicate the bubble algae that’s taken over. The two mithrax crabs I’ve added haven’t done anything.
 
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So i made an interesting observation today. My new microscope purchase has come in handy and this past week i confirmed amphidinium in my reefer 525xl. It was the result of using bad rodi water which was slowly poisoning my tank and i lost some coral before i realized what was happening. My nutrients were high (NO3 5 to 10 and PO4 0.1 to 0.2) and never bottomed out but apparently i must have killed a lot of good bacteria and that paved the way for dinos.

I also have a 20 gallon at work that has been running for 2 years. It has a brown gunky sand bed that i always thought was cyano. It has been like that for more than a year. I refused to use any chemicals on that tank because it grows all coral like crazy including sps. i just ignored the sand and all i do is a weekly 25% water change with sand bed vacuuming. I have no skimming, no uv, no carbon.. or any other chemical filtration.... just filter floss plus auto-dosing of alk and Ca. I decided to pull some sand and put under the scope today and sure enough its amphidinium. Of course i have moved coral between tanks so not surprise. I think what is more interesting is that this tank is totally hands off. I truly do nothing but weekly WC and it has been a year or more and the amphidinium are still there. However, the concentration of dinos has subsided over the course of the year. I would call it very mild at this point and for the most part seems to be petering out. I even had a hard time finding them under the microscope.

So my take away on this is... yes, the do nothing approach did keep things in check and over the course of a year it does finally seem like its on its way out. At this rate maybe by end of the year? But... i wonder if those who had success with the "do nothing" technique had actually done something positive before "doing nothing" like maybe seeding with pods, phyto, etc. So moving forward i am going to let my 20 gallon ride out and do nothing. For my reefer 525xl with recently diagnosed dinos i might try adding pods and phyto and possibly add some live rock or mud to the sump..and then do nothing.
 
I decided I was just going to ride with the large cell dinoflagellates. I didn’t want to do anything that would cause the tank any issues. Everything else with the tank has been going great.

Anyways, my Dino’s have pretty much disappeared on their own. I don’t even see them anymore as they are only a small corner of the back of the tank. Tank just turned a year old. My entire sand bed was covered for months.

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Seems like the wait and see approach is the way to go. Frustratingly, I fought ostreopsis dinos to get large fell amphi dinos. Nutrient dosing hasn’t helped. A lot of manual removal and cleaning the sand kicks them back, but they resurge with a vengeance. Did not do any bacteria dosing since mixed responses. I’m at a loss, hoping it will resolve on its own. Siphoning and cleaning sand is becoming a chore for sure. At this rate, I might remove the sand completely. I started a new tank and will be using my current one with dinos as a frag system. Any tips to avoid bringing the problem over?
 
So UV kills dinos but amphidinium stay in the sand? Has anyone ever created a submersible UV light that can be waved over the surface of the sandbed? Seems that would kill amphidinium on the surface and would leave bacteria embedded in the sand intact? Thoughts?

I guess you can buy submersible UV lamps.
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So i went ahead and purchased a small submersible UV bulb. I am going to enclose the bulb with a PVC pipe but leave a small slit down the length of the pipe. This slit will be the only exit for UV rays. I will sink the bulb to the sand bed and turn it on. This will protect me and the fish while i float the UV bulb over the sand bed while the dinos are active. My goal will be to avoid disturbing the sand bed too much because i don't want to kill the good bacteria embedded in the sand. I figure i could repeat as needed. I understand this won't kill every dino cell but it should knock it back hard and possibly allow for something else to compete. Any suggestions for this experiment?
 
So UV kills dinos but amphidinium stay in the sand? Has anyone ever created a submersible UV light that can be waved over the surface of the sandbed? Seems that would kill amphidinium on the surface and would leave bacteria embedded in the sand intact? Thoughts?

I guess you can buy submersible UV lamps.
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I used a similar UV for my tank. I placed it into the rear sump (20 gallon nano reef).
 
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Any suggestions for this experiment?
I couldn't possibly guess how this'll go.
But I'll definitely be interested in your observations!
 
I appreciate this might well win the award for stupid question of the day, but..... How do you guys take the samples that show dino's/diatoms etc? I tried yesterday using a pipette on the areas where what I think is amphidinium but couldn't see very much (admittedly it was on a cheap microscope) but I'm pretty sure I have an infestation...
 

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