Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[attiland]

For how long should I do that? It has been months and not much progress.
Also, should I siphon the sand bed or just leave it and let diatoms kill it?

Let diatoms do their work. After a week or so I would do check with microscope again to se how it goes. If mos diatoms I would vacuum the top up the silicates and wait again. Once you see more than 90 % diatoms only I would stop dosing and vacuum after an another week. The rest would be work for CUC. You will see fish will start to pick if it is mainly diatoms.

Have you looked into elegant corals dino treatment? I'm a big fan of that. It worked on 2 of my tanks. Just watch your nutrients as it'll bottom them out rapidly. I had to do it 3 weeks in a row and I've been dino free in one tank since. The other was dino free for about 8 months until I decided to do a series of 30% water changes every day for a week straight to drop my nitrates from over 100 to 10.

On which stain did it work? On the Amphidinium tread people had mixed results.

 

[DrMMI]

Let diatoms do their work. After a week or so I would do check with microscope again to se how it goes. If mos diatoms I would vacuum the top up the silicates and wait again. Once you see more than 90 % diatoms only I would stop dosing and vacuum after an another week. The rest would be work for CUC. You will see fish will start to pick if it is mainly diatoms.

On which stain did it work? On the Amphidinium tread people had mixed results.

Both tanks had large cell amphidium.

 

[attiland]

Both tanks had large cell amphidium.

Good to know

 

[4sylvester]

So my amphidinium are back. UV knocked them out by 90% and they slowly came back. I am guessing i had small cell before and now i have large cell. I started to siphon out sand. I took about 25% of my sandbed and rinsed it well with tank water. I then put it in a bin in my sump where it is dark. Has anyone done this before? I guess darkness won't kill amphidinium or will it? Also by putting the sand in my sump i am not stripping my tank of the beneficial bacteria in that sand. thoughts?

 

[attiland]

So my amphidinium are back. UV knocked them out by 90% and they slowly came back. I am guessing i had small cell before and now i have large cell. I started to siphon out sand. I took about 25% of my sandbed and rinsed it well with tank water. I then put it in a bin in my sump where it is dark. Has anyone done this before? I guess darkness won't kill amphidinium or will it? Also by putting the sand in my sump i am not stripping my tank of the beneficial bacteria in that sand. thoughts?

1. Confirm what you have with a microscope
2. You can rinse sand but I have seen it more than once that they come back
3. If it is Amphidinium look into silicates dosing- worked for me or @DrMMI said he was successful with elegant coral method
4. I think it is the most important- you are not killing Dinos you employ competitors to do the work for you by keeping them happy and by introducing new ones if applicable

 

[4sylvester]

1. Confirm what you have with a microscope
2. You can rinse sand but I have seen it more than once that they come back
3. If it is Amphidinium look into silicates dosing- worked for me or @DrMMI said he was successful with elegant coral method
4. I think it is the most important- you are not killing Dinos you employ competitors to do the work for you by keeping them happy and by introducing new ones if applicable

Thanks.. confirmed again under scope.. mostly large cell and spotted a few small cell. I assume they are small cell because they are 1/5 the size of the larger dinos and they move VERY fast. I pulled a sand sample from the sand that has been in my sump in the dark for 7 days and i don't see any dinos. Shouldn't i still be able to find them in that sand in the dark?

 

[attiland]

Thanks.. confirmed again under scope.. mostly large cell and spotted a few small cell. I assume they are small cell because they are 1/5 the size of the larger dinos and they move VERY fast. I pulled a sand sample from the sand that has been in my sump in the dark for 7 days and i don't see any dinos. Shouldn't i still be able to find them in that sand in the dark?

Uv will help some with small cell Amphidinium but karge cell remains in the sand at night. So silicates dosing is what I would do and did with the same set.
there are details of what I did here;

Build Thread - The heater failure build

I have had aquarium since I can remember. Ok the very first one hardly can be called an aquarium as it was just a 3l jar with a 2-3 inch catfish in it my dad caught while we were fishing. And that fish didn’t last long with me as he had to go back to the river Danube. It was growing faster and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[New&no clue]

I've spent the last week reading the original Dino thread, and now this one. I believe I have amphidinium but would love an confirmation from some others before I start adding silicate to the tank.

 

[attiland]

I've spent the last week reading the original Dino thread, and now this one. I believe I have amphidinium but would love an confirmation from some others before I start adding silicate to the tank.

I would vote Prorocentrum but wasn’t 100% sure

 

[New&no clue]

I would vote Prorocentrum but wasn’t 100% sure

It could be. I was relying on the roomba movement to ID, but looks like prorocentrum moves similarly. Well now I’m 50/50.

 

[ScottB]

Thanks.. confirmed again under scope.. mostly large cell and spotted a few small cell. I assume they are small cell because they are 1/5 the size of the larger dinos and they move VERY fast. I pulled a sand sample from the sand that has been in my sump in the dark for 7 days and i don't see any dinos. Shouldn't i still be able to find them in that sand in the dark?

It is my recollection that large cell amphids will go into cyst mode during a blackout. Perhaps an extended stay in the sump will have some effect, not sure. But I do like the idea of keeping your sand within the system. Removing a sandbed entirely is very destabilizing.

 

[4sylvester]

Sorry for the shot gun blast approach but i have been battling these things for 2 years. Here is what i found...

Several months ago.. added a 25W Aqua UV to sump of my reefer 525xl. Dino's over 95% gone in about a week. I was shocked. over the next month dinos started coming back strong. I noticed my gyro pumps were covered in algae and not moving water.. it became apparent these dinos needed some encouragement to enter the water column at night and with little flow they just came back. So here is what i did after that

1. Cleaned powerheads ensuring i had good flow in tank.
2. Added a green mean killing machine to the display while continuing to run UV in sump.
3. Removed about 1/3rd of my sandbed sucking off as much dino infested sand as possible. Placed in a tray in the sump... rather than discarding.
4. Did a 1-time does of 1ppm Silica ( i had no traces of diatoms prior to dosing).
5. Dosed MB7 for 7 days

2 Weeks later here are my observations.

1. Dino is 99% gone. I struggle to find a few under the microscope. I do see diatoms but none really visible in the display.
2. Zero traces of dino in my sand in the tray in dark sump.. not a single piece of evidence of dino. Under the scope.. Lots of life.. but no dino. even had some bacterial slime growing on top of sand in sump but no dino.

So my thoughts.. UV in the display was a winner and i think was really working better than in the sump. Although... i gave it an edge up by removing most of the contaminated sand and putting in the sump where dino gave up or went into the water column and got zapped. So while i think ultimately uv was the killer... Recently i saw on FB a user was covering his sand with acrylic blacks to blackout dino... Well why not just take that sand and put in the sump? The bonus is your sand never leaves the system and gives it time to grow all the "good" stuff in it without harboring dinos.

Now... the big question.. should i take that sand in the sump and add back to the display? i would think it would be safe.. but only one way to find out.

 

[New&no clue]

Does anyone have recommendations for UV size on a 180 DT+ 60 gallons sump?

 

[4sylvester]

Does anyone have recommendations for UV size on a 180 DT+ 60 gallons sump?

My 110 gallon display and 30 sump has 25W AquaUV in sump and 24W Green Killing Machine in Display.

 

[ScottB]

Does anyone have recommendations for UV size on a 180 DT+ 60 gallons sump?

These days, the cool kids buy the Lifegard Pro-Max. For treatment of dinos, the 90watt is recommended to accomplish 1 watt per 3 gallons. Sorry about the expense.

For the temporary deployment against dinos, you can hang it off the back glass, then break it down and put it away.

 

[New&no clue]

These days, the cool kids buy the Lifegard Pro-Max. For treatment of dinos, the 90watt is recommended to accomplish 1 watt per 3 gallons. Sorry about the expense.

For the temporary deployment against dinos, you can hang it off the back glass, then break it down and put it away.

I don't mind the price, I just want to make sure I get the right size for the job. Looking at them the spec say that 90 watt is for 650 gallons, the 55 watt is for 350, and the 40 watt is 250 gallons. Is going with the 90 watt oversized?

 

[ScottB]

I don't mind the price, I just want to make sure I get the right size for the job. Looking at them the spec say that 90 watt is for 650 gallons, the 55 watt is for 350, and the 40 watt is 250 gallons. Is going with the 90 watt oversized?

Yes, it is oversized for what the UV is most typically deployed for: waterborne algae, protozoa (fish parasites), and bacterial blooms. None of these have the protective shell (body armor, or theca) that dinoflagellates have.

Yes, I have seen people get by with less wattage, but then you really have to slow the flow down dramatically.

 

[New&no clue]

Yes, it is oversized for what the UV is most typically deployed for: waterborne algae, protozoa (fish parasites), and bacterial blooms. None of these have the protective shell (body armor, or theca) that dinoflagellates have.

Yes, I have seen people get by with less wattage, but then you really have to slow the flow down dramatically.

Interest, okay, thank you. There is so much conflicting information out there it is hard to know which way to go.

 

[ScottB]

Interest, okay, thank you. There is so much conflicting information out there it is hard to know which way to go.

Agreed, there is a lot of conflicting info about dino treatment protocols. Honestly, they are kind of a "newer" phenomenon in the hobby given the more recent preference of starting tanks with dead rock versus live. Combine that lack of biological diversity with the ever expanding suite of nutrient removal tools (mechanical, chemical, biological) and it is almost inevitable.

I've been an active participant in the "Are you tired" thread for about 5 years, so I have a decent feel for who to listen to by now. There are just a couple, but @taricha is the present thought leader on the subject. There is a consensus protocol, but unless you've read a few thousand posts that consensus could be hard to glean.

Which leads me to a question: are you contemplating a UV to solve for Large cell amphidinium or something else? LC Amphids don't leave the sand bed, so the UV is largely ineffective against them.

 

[New&no clue]

Agreed, there is a lot of conflicting info about dino treatment protocols. Honestly, they are kind of a "newer" phenomenon in the hobby given the more recent preference of starting tanks with dead rock versus live. Combine that lack of biological diversity with the ever expanding suite of nutrient removal tools (mechanical, chemical, biological) and it is almost inevitable.

I've been an active participant in the "Are you tired" thread for about 5 years, so I have a decent feel for who to listen to by now. There are just a couple, but @taricha is the present thought leader on the subject. There is a consensus protocol, but unless you've read a few thousand posts that consensus could be hard to glean.

Which leads me to a question: are you contemplating a UV to solve for Large cell amphidinium or something else? LC Amphids don't leave the sand bed, so the UV is largely ineffective against them.

I believe I have Prorocentrum. I've posted a picture and video above. I also sent a picture to taricha who was leaning that way as well and suggested UV.