Angelfish & Skin Discoloration - Infection?

[tutmatt3]

Alright, so finally got the lights in QT on after getting my shipment today, and noticed a dark patch on the angels' right side - in the fin location. Based off prior angels that showed even slight signs of discoloration on the skin always ended in fatality. My goal this time is to reach out to you guys for assistance with a diagnosis & potential treatment options.

Would this be some sort of (bacterial) infection? How common is this? From the angels I've gone through, 50%+ of them had some sort of discoloration that ended up growing

Fishs' Left side for comparison

 

[tutmatt3]

Grabbed some HD pics.
When the fish faces right, you can see the discoloration.
The fish facing left is for comparison.

Oh, and ruler for scale =)

 

[Flippers4pups]

It's looks a little thin. Could be infection.

#reefsquad.

 

[Humblefish]

Could just be a bruise. But if you wanted to be extra cautious you could start dosing antibiotics or at the very least, give him a MB bath.

 

[aykwm]

It might be bacterial infection in which case metro+kanaplex+furan can be used.It might be a bruise in which case it will heal on it's own. I'm also suspecting uronema but ill leave it for the experts to confirm especially that you said several angels had similar signs and ended up dead, because uronema can be fatal within matters of hours, and also can live in the tank without a host.
Are you getting the angels from same supplier? Are you setting up new sterile QT or the same QT? Any other symptoms you notice of him?
I would recommend doing an acriflavine bath, it will help with bacterial infection and might cure uronema if its the case, so its a win win in both cases.

 

[tutmatt3]

It's looks a little thin. Could be infection.

#reefsquad.

Ya. Tried feeding a bit, but him nor the 2x bangais went for it.
Will try again tomorrow

Could just be a bruise. But if you wanted to be extra cautious you could start dosing antibiotics or at the very least, give him a MB bath.

Thanks on the links! Which would you recommend to do , just the bath & observe, or antibiotic for the whole tank?
I'll head to the LFS in an hour or so and pick something up

It might be bacterial infection in which case metro+kanaplex+furan can be used.It might be a bruise in which case it will heal on it's own. I'm also suspecting uronema but ill leave it for the experts to confirm especially that you said several angels had similar signs and ended up dead, because uronema can be fatal within matters of hours, and also can live in the tank without a host.
Are you getting the angels from same supplier? Are you setting up new sterile QT or the same QT? Any other symptoms you notice of him?
I would recommend doing an acriflavine bath, it will help with bacterial infection and might cure uronema if its the case, so its a win win in both cases.

All different suppliers. Actually 4x different ones. Most (if not all) have come with the spot very very minimal, and continued over the duration of 1-2 weeks.
I plan to treat the tank w/ copper, so would that take care of uronema?
Ya same QT. I usually do a thorough rinse & allow to dry for a few days, then cycle w/ clean water, bio-spira, & a sponge seeded from the DT


Unsure if a bath or antibiotics would be the best course of action. Since none of the 3 in QT ate today, I'm a bit afraid to start medicating ASAP which may suppress their appetite even more.
Hopefully they'll be hungry by tomorrow =)

 

[4FordFamily]

My experience with potters angelfish is that they tend to lose color and die when things aren't going well-- they respond this way to many ailments, seemingly. Lack of nourishment, disease, poor water quality, etc.

Color loss is also very very common in angels afflicted by velvet. They seem to be best able to hide obvious spots and dustings with the strain of velvet that isn't easily identifiable by appearance that occurs these days.

Keep a close eye, good luck I hope I am wrong!

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks on the links! Which would you recommend to do , just the bath & observe, or antibiotic for the whole tank?
I'll head to the LFS in an hour or so and pick something up

I would probably at least dose Kanaplex or Furan-2 to get a leg up on this. Once a bacterial infection becomes obvious, it's usually too late.

 

[melypr1985]

I would probably at least dose Kanaplex or Furan-2 to get a leg up on this. Once a bacterial infection becomes obvious, it's usually too late.

Agreed ^^

 

[tutmatt3]

My experience with potters angelfish is that they tend to lose color and die when things aren't going well-- they respond this way to many ailments, seemingly. Lack of nourishment, disease, poor water quality, etc.

Color loss is also very very common in angels afflicted by velvet. They seem to be best able to hide obvious spots and dustings with the strain of velvet that isn't easily identifiable by appearance that occurs these days.

Keep a close eye, good luck I hope I am wrong!

Thnks. Will do the best i can

I would probably at least dose Kanaplex or Furan-2 to get a leg up on this. Once a bacterial infection becomes obvious, it's usually too late.

Understood. I'll have to read through some of the past articles, but off the bat, any conflict with prazi or copper? If doing kanaplex, shall i still do the bath?

 

[Humblefish]

Understood. I'll have to read through some of the past articles, but off the bat, any conflict with prazi or copper? If doing kanaplex, shall i still do the bath?

A bacterial bloom is always a concern when mixing other meds with Prazipro. I would probably just dose Kanaplex for now.

 

[tutmatt3]

A bacterial bloom is always a concern when mixing other meds with Prazipro. I would probably just dose Kanaplex for now.

Thanks.
I picked up a bottle of Kordon Methylene Blue, & kanaplex.
They didn't have seachem focus or any binders. First time ever using both products. Shall I still mix kanaplex w/ food & just understand it'll leach unto the water?

Couple last questions. Going to prep a MB bath - shall I only use it on the angel, or on the 2x bangais in the QT as well?

MB
-----------------
I'll do a 2gallon bath in a medication bucket I have, and use a wavepump for 30mins
Since directions are 10drops per gallon, I'll do 40x drops (or 4ML) for 2x gallons for 30 mins, correct?

Kanaplex
----------------
10gallon QT for 10x days as recommended in the article.
Directions on Kana state 1 spoon for every 5x gallons, ever 2x days, but not to exceed 3
Shall I mix 2x spoons w/ food & tank water (so it kinda soaks up a bit? but will still go into the water column)

5x doses total, with a water change before dose 4?


Lastly - I'll do the bath today. Should I wait to dose Kanaplex until tomorrows feeding? Or start it asap?
I see it may suppress appetite, which has me slightly concerned since none of the fish ate today. First time getting fish from online, so it might be expected from the shipping stress I guess
Super Lastly - I have 1x powerhead (blades cut in half, since was too powerful for 10g tank - causing commotion @ the surface, and 1x HOB filter. Is this considered sufficient gas exchange for the medicine I'm about to use?

Thanks thanks thanks! Always a help

 

[ngoodermuth]

The kanaplex should be dosed directly to the tank in this case. Dissolve it in a cup of tank water and dump in a high flow area. I would run it for a minimum of 10 days.

When it comes to O2 and medications, more is better. Adding an airline is never a bad idea.

 

[tutmatt3]

The kanaplex should be dosed directly to the tank in this case. Dissolve it in a cup of tank water and dump in a high flow area.

Got it, thank you very much.
Well, I guess better to start asap

 

[tutmatt3]

One cardinal was on its side before getting ready for the dip
I decided to give all three fish at dip and that Cardinal was just bouncing back and forth

Very clear he wasn't going to make it

Now the other Cardinal and the angel are back in qt and the angel is still breathing really rapidly ~2 hours after the dip, and lights off now.

I have no idea what may have caused the first Cardinal to go but now I have a fear of velvet, although no visible signs

First time ever ordering fish online so I don't know the fatality rate within the first day of acquiring them

 

[Humblefish]

First time ever ordering fish online so I don't know the fatality rate within the first day of acquiring them

Typically, disease problems do not occur straight away as the fish at least has the benefit of a "clean slate" i.e. disease-free water in QT. So, the only issues should be whatever the fish brings in with it.

However, exposure to ammonia, malnourishment, physical damage or some other mishap in transit can be a game changer. And greatly affect the outcome of QT.

 

[tutmatt3]

So the little baby didn't make it 24 hours.
LQ sent me another, and I paid the upgrade for a medium, since I wanted something bigger than my thumbnail.

This one has been alive & kicking for 7 full days now! It came w/ what looked like a 'scab' , or semi-fresh scar, & was pretty red.

Since I had antibiotics on hand from this guy, I decided to treat the new one ASAP. So far, it's been doing great, eating, etc.

I'll be doing my 5th dose of Kanaplex tomorrow , which will be day 9.

After 10xday of treating - what shall I do? The scab looks much much better than day 1, but obviously not fully healed. Shall I just feed nutrition & observe?
Thanks!

 

[4FordFamily]

So the little baby didn't make it 24 hours.
LQ sent me another, and I paid the upgrade for a medium, since I wanted something bigger than my thumbnail.

This one has been alive & kicking for 7 full days now! It came w/ what looked like a 'scab' , or semi-fresh scar, & was pretty red.

Since I had antibiotics on hand from this guy, I decided to treat the new one ASAP. So far, it's been doing great, eating, etc.

I'll be doing my 5th dose of Kanaplex tomorrow , which will be day 9.

After 10xday of treating - what shall I do? The scab looks much much better than day 1, but obviously not fully healed. Shall I just feed nutrition & observe?
Thanks!

Sorry for your loss and congrats on the second fish that's doing well!

I would treat until it's nearly healed, then treat with copper because nearly all fish have velvet or ich these days as they've been exposed to it at some point in the distribution system.

Keep us posted!

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Agree; continue antibiotics until the scab looks fully healed.

 

[tutmatt3]

Will do! Thanks