Another cycle question

[BeejReef]

Hello R2R..

Trust me, I've read the guides and I've watched the videos and I'm still a little unsure. Perhaps there is no consensus, but I fig'd I might as well hear from those who actually have done it.

The particulars are: 65g tank, 25shg sump, 70g total water volume currently running flow, no light, no filtration. Saltwater and dry rock in yesterday. About 35lbs of fully dead dry rock, some ceramic media in sump, and just bought 10 pounds of fully cured, still fully submerged, live rock from a local hobbyist/small business owner running an immaculate system. The LR looks great, smells like the ocean...

The dry rock has been in the tank, wet, for two days and Ammonia is undetectable. I'm hoping that means I'm not dealing with much in the way of rotting organics. I dropped in a few pellets to start a cycle. I also have in about 60lbs of "live sand," from a major retailer in Minnesota. No cycling additives in yet, but I could be persuaded to try some.

Question - Some sources I've read say to be very cautious about adding cured live rock and say doing so will kill it and lead to die off/ammonia/stalled cycle.

Other sources say the cured live rock will greatly speed up the cycle and coraline and so on.

I understand I'm risking hitchhikers. That's just a choice I've made. My question is, can I add this cured live rock to a two-day-wet tank, or is that bad? Also, if you can see the future, please tell me what to expect. You can see my setup here. www.reef2reef.com/threads/65g-dream-errrr-reality-build.552444/#post-5710931

 

[EmdeReef]

Hello R2R..

Trust me, I've read the guides and I've watched the videos and I'm still a little unsure. Perhaps there is no consensus, but I fig'd I might as well hear from those who actually have done it.

The particulars are: 65g tank, 25shg sump, 70g total water volume currently running flow, no light, no filtration. Saltwater and dry rock in yesterday. About 35lbs of fully dead dry rock, some ceramic media in sump, and just bought 10 pounds of fully cured, still fully submerged, live rock from a local hobbyist/small business owner running an immaculate system. The LR looks great, smells like the ocean...

The dry rock has been in the tank, wet, for two days and Ammonia is undetectable. I'm hoping that means I'm not dealing with much in the way of rotting organics. I dropped in a few pellets to start a cycle. I also have in about 60lbs of "live sand," from a major retailer in Minnesota. No cycling additives in yet, but I could be persuaded to try some.

Question - Some sources I've read say to be very cautious about adding cured live rock and say doing so will kill it and lead to die off/ammonia/stalled cycle.

Other sources say the cured live rock will greatly speed up the cycle and coraline and so on.

I understand I'm risking hitchhikers. That's just a choice I've made. My question is, can I add this cured live rock to a two-day-wet tank, or is that bad? Also, if you can see the future, please tell me what to expect. You can see my setup here. www.reef2reef.com/threads/65g-dream-errrr-reality-build.552444/#post-5710931

Yea you can add. It should speed up the cycle. You will still need to add a source of ammonia to get the bacteria growing, in this case with already live rock you may not record ammonia but nitrates should be going up.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

You will also want to watch your PO4 closely for a while as dry rock has been known to leach PO4. Also, DO NOT add pure ammonia to the tank once the live rock is added, it may kill some of the things that you wanted from the live rock. IMO, I would just ghost feed a couple times a week, and in about 30 days, you should be good to go.

 

[BeejReef]

So, a continuation question..

Here's paras
Ammonia .25ppm or less
Nitrite 1ppm
Nitrate 5-6
Phosphate 2.43!!
Dkh 9.4

I'm 5.5 days in after Dr. TI'm and Jumbo, jumbo shrimp. 70/30 dry rock to live. Never was able to get ammonia above .25. Nitrate still very reasonable. Nitrite is the only game in town. Suspect rocks leaching phosphate. Was.3 on day 2.

So, my shrimp has pretty much disintegrated. Next? Pull out pieces I can and wait for Nitrates to 0 before wc? Or, do i need to double down on shrimp and force ammonia higher? W phos so high, I'd like to fire up the fuge and skimmer.

Am running ambient light and flow only atm.

 

[1WildBill]

Right now, you don’t need the lights, it just help the algae start. Leave the shrimp in and toss in another. When you do your water change, pull them out. Yes, wait for zero nitrites before doing the WC.

 

[BeejReef]

Right now, you don’t need the lights, it just help the algae start. Leave the shrimp in and toss in another. When you do your water change, pull them out. Yes, wait for zero nitrites before doing the WC.

I'm waiting for 0 or near zero ammonia and nitrite while I have shrimp actively rotting in the tank?

 

[PatW]

I would fish out the shrimp.

I cycle with ammonia that I get from the LFS for that purpose. But the shrimp method works too. I think it is more controllable and it only adds ammonia and no phosphate.

I let it cycle. I checked it by adding 1 ppm ammonia, if memory serves, to see if the system could convert all of it to nitrate in 24 hours.

When I added fish, I added a few at a time to prevent from overwhelming the system.

It would be a good idea to do some big water changes after the cycle to get phosphate and nitrate levels down.

In the future, I am thinking of tossing dry rock into a Brute trashcan with a power head and cycling it in there. That way, I will not have a tank with high nitrates at the end of the cycle.

 

[BeejReef]

I would fish out the shrimp.

I cycle with ammonia that I get from the LFS for that purpose. But the shrimp method works too. I think it is more controllable and it only adds ammonia and no phosphate.

I let it cycle. I checked it by adding 1 ppm ammonia, if memory serves, to see if the system could convert all of it to nitrate in 24 hours.

When I added fish, I added a few at a time to prevent from overwhelming the system.

It would be a good idea to do some big water changes after the cycle to get phosphate and nitrate levels down.

In the future, I am thinking of tossing dry rock into a Brute trashcan with a power head and cycling it in there. That way, I will not have a tank with high nitrates at the end of the cycle.

I may try that. That was my unknown... when can u call it done cycling w shrimp

 

[lapin]

So, a continuation question..
Suspect rocks leaching phosphate. Was .3 on day 2. now its 2.43. With phos so high, I'd like to fire up the fuge and skimmer.

You can do a water change and see where that gets you. If it comes right back up, then we have to figure out another solution. The fuge and skimmer cant hurt but might not be enough. Even a reactor with Po4 remover might not be enough, because you have such high Po4 you need to figure out where that is coming from. If you have a sump and filter socks you can drip Lanthanum Chloride into the socks and cause the P to fall out of the water. This is quickest and most cost effective way I know of.

I'm 5.5 days in after Dr. TI'm and Jumbo, jumbo shrimp. 70/30 dry rock to live. Never was able to get ammonia above .25. Nitrate still very reasonable. Nitrite is the only game in town. So, my shrimp has pretty much disintegrated. Next? Pull out pieces I can and wait for Nitrates to 0 before wc? Or, do i need to double down on shrimp and force ammonia higher?

The shrimp has done its duty. Your live rock was processing the ammonia into nitrite then into nitrate. At the same time your dry rock is being populated by bacteria. You can add more food for the bacteria which should increase the colony numbers. Its will just take time. most tanks cycle in 4 to 8 weeks with dry rock and faster if live rock and bacteria is in the picture.

 

[BeejReef]

Ty all. My local guy agrees that it's best to give it a solid 4 or 5 weeks as well. I dropped in another shrimp just to get ammonia up to 1 or so. Another surprise, I have an asterina. The tank is so empty, I'm having a hard time removing him.

 

[lapin]

I have an asterina. The tank is so empty, I'm having a hard time removing him.

No need to remove him. It prob likes shrimp for dinner.

 

[BeejReef]

Ammonia .5, nitrite 4, nitrate 10-12.. just logging for my records

 

[BeejReef]

I'm torn on removing or keeping "him." I used live rock hoping for some biodiversity, and there it sits, dead center of my front pane of glass. Interweb says usually harmless. On the other hand, very strong chance he's the only one and I could be rid of asterina in 5 sec for 0 dollars as opposed to the alternative down the line.

 

[BeejReef]

Ammonia .5, nitrite 4, nitrate 10-12.. just logging for my records

Nitrate 16+, ammonia .7 (est), nitrite 1.5 (correction, nitrite 1.5 yesterday as well)

 

[BeejReef]

Ammonia 1.5, nitrite 1.5, nitrate 10sh, removing shrimps 2/25

 

[1WildBill]

Eat the shrimp, ghost feed flakes. It’s cheaper and just as effective.

 

[BeejReef]

Eat the shrimp, ghost feed flakes. It’s cheaper and just as effective.

Once I'm a veteran, I will. Tank is so empty, even a headless shrimp is welcome [emoji2]

 

[BeejReef]

Ammonia 1.3
Nitrite 1
Nitrate 24

 

[BeejReef]

Ammonia unchanged, nitrite down to .5.. thinking I still have shrimp pieces an dead asterina holding up ammonia

 

[BeejReef]

Ammonia 1.4, nitrite 1, nitrate, off chart. 64+ on test strip. Est at least 100