Anthias bacterial?

Norcalreef · Apr 22, 2018

Got a Randall’s anthias along with a royal gramma from liveaquaria on Thursday. Fish has been eating great and seems to be doing good. I have been feeding food mixed with focus and metro twice a day since we got it. Started dosing cupramine yesterday.
It’s currently in qt with the gramma. Qt is a 29 gallon with only pieces of 2” pvc. This morning I noticed the top fin is white on the anthias. I am leaving towards a bacterial issue? Should I also add kanaplex to the mix? I also have formalin and prazi on hand.

@Humblefish
Thanks ahead for the help!

deedubz · Apr 22, 2018

Looks like a bacterial infection to me.
Is the cupramine prophylactic, or are you treating ich/velvet? Any symptoms/aggression between the two?

You can mix antibiotics with copper but you have to be careful of a bacterial bloom. Since you're already feeding metro you could start with kanaplex in the water but, again, watch for signs of a bloom. When I've had to dose copper and antibiotics I'll run a ph+airstones and do a wc every couple days(making sure to add copper to the new water before adding to tank).

Alternatively, you can cease copper and start with antibiotics. Then wait to see if symptoms of velvet/ich start and resume copper if need be

JaimeAdams · Apr 22, 2018

Kannaplex, metroplex and furan-2 mixed together will give you the antibiotic coverage that you are looking for.

Norcalreef · Apr 22, 2018

dwwataz said:
Looks like a bacterial infection to me.
Is the cupramine prophylactic, or are you treating ich/velvet? Any symptoms/aggression between the two?

You can mix antibiotics with copper but you have to be careful of a bacterial bloom. Since you're already feeding metro you could start with kanaplex in the water but, again, watch for signs of a bloom. When I've had to dose copper and antibiotics I'll run a ph+airstones and do a wc every couple days(making sure to add copper to the new water before adding to tank).

Alternatively, you can cease copper and start with antibiotics. Then wait to see if symptoms of velvet/ich start and resume copper if need be

I had noticed the anthias breathing kinda heavy and some yawning. But no actual visible ich or velvet. So I guess prophylactic.
I have only done the initial dose or cupramine so far so could stop.
I have a aqua clear 50 hob I believe and a mj1200 powerhead on there. The mj is pointed at the surface and have really strong surface movement. I have air pump so I could add a air stone but idk if it would really improve on what the mj is already doing.
I have not dosed the water with metro yet, only fed it. But with it being external now I guess water dosing would be important.
With fish in qt I do a wc every 2-3 days. Most of the time every other day but sometimes life gets in the way and it’s every 3.

Norcalreef · Apr 22, 2018

JaimeAdams said:
Kannaplex, metroplex and furan-2 mixed together will give you the antibiotic coverage that you are looking for.

I’ll grab the furan 2 and Kannaplex today. Thank you

deedubz · Apr 22, 2018

If the anthias breathing heavy and yawning I'd suspect that's where the infection came from. I'd do a fw dip to rule out flukes because of the yawning. If you don't see any flukes I'd suspect ich or velvet, in which case you'd pretty much be stuck with running copper and the antibiotics

deedubz · Apr 22, 2018

Here's the write-up/video on a few dip if you've never done one

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.214/

deedubz · Apr 22, 2018

Actually, because you said rapid breathing, how was the qt set up? Did you use a sponge from dt or biospira/tims/etc? Do you have an ammonia alert badge?

Norcalreef · Apr 22, 2018

dwwataz said:
Actually, because you said rapid breathing, how was the qt set up? Did you use a sponge from dt or biospira/tims/etc? Do you have an ammonia alert badge?

Yes ammonia alert badge. Big bag of matrix I had in my sump for over a month. I’ll try the fw dip later today. The gramma seems fine. Thanks for the help

Norcalreef · Apr 22, 2018

dwwataz said:
Actually, because you said rapid breathing, how was the qt set up? Did you use a sponge from dt or biospira/tims/etc? Do you have an ammonia alert badge?

I did the fw dip, nothing came off. It almost looks like the top part of the fin is falling off that makes it look like a female as opposed to a male.

Could it be that it is transitioning to a male? Basically I had ordered 2 females and a male from liveaquaria. They only sent 1 fish claiming it to be the more expensive male. The fish looks exactly like what they show as a female. And now they’re claiming my pics aren’t clear enough even though I have a iPhone X, but all the is another issue haha, not very happy with my whole purchase from them.

deedubz · Apr 22, 2018

I doubt that'd cause the white blotch though. That looks bacterial to me. Plus there's the rapid breathing and yawning. Since you did the fw dip and ruled out flukes I'd still recommend proceeding with copper and antibiotics. Velvet is so common now and sometimes you won't see visible symptoms until it's too late. Also, I know you said that mj moves a bit of water, but I'd recommend using the air pump and stones if you do mix the treatments... You'll want that extra aeration. I just did copper/antibiotics a month or so ago myself for velvet and the bloom didn't take long to kick in

deedubz · Apr 22, 2018

I'd try to snap a few more pics then. I haven't ordered from them in a while. I did have problems with a couple wrasses (swim bladder) and they reimbursed me without question. They do have a pretty good reputation as far as customer service

Norcalreef · Apr 22, 2018

dwwataz said:
I doubt that'd cause the white blotch though. That looks bacterial to me. Plus there's the rapid breathing and yawning. Since you did the fw dip and ruled out flukes I'd still recommend proceeding with copper and antibiotics. Velvet is so common now and sometimes you won't see visible symptoms until it's too late. Also, I know you said that mj moves a bit of water, but I'd recommend using the air pump and stones if you do mix the treatments... You'll want that extra aeration. I just did copper/antibiotics a month or so ago myself for velvet and the bloom didn't take long to kick in

Thank you for the help, truly appreciated. I already had a air pump and picked up some new stones for the fw dip so that’s easy.
I added the kannaplex already, is it safe to use the furan 2 at the same time? And I’ll continue to feed metro as I saw a white poop after the fw dip.
I will continue with the cupramine dosage. My Hanna copper checker is supposed to finally be here Wednesday or thursdays. Will be nice to know for sure as the colors are very hard for me to tell.

Norcalreef · Apr 22, 2018

dwwataz said:
I'd try to snap a few more pics then. I haven't ordered from them in a while. I did have problems with a couple wrasses (swim bladder) and they reimbursed me without question. They do have a pretty good reputation as far as customer service

This was my first time dealing with them and I’m not very impressed honestly. We will see in the end. I guess maybe next time I’ll only order from divers den so I know what I’m getting. I would have ordered other fish if I knew I was only getting 1.

deedubz · Apr 22, 2018

Norcalreef said:
Thank you for the help, truly appreciated. I already had a air pump and picked up some new stones for the fw dip so that’s easy.
I added the kannaplex already, is it safe to use the furan 2 at the same time? And I’ll continue to feed metro as I saw a white poop after the fw dip.
I will continue with the cupramine dosage. My Hanna copper checker is supposed to finally be here Wednesday or thursdays. Will be nice to know for sure as the colors are very hard for me to tell.

You're quite welcome.

Yes, you can do both kana and furan-2
The schedule would be
Day 1 furan/kanaplex
Day 2 furan-2
Day 3 waterchange THEN furan/kana
Day 4 furan-2
Day 5 waterchange THEN furan/kana

Do this for 10 days. The waterchange is every 48 hours. It looks weird at first seeing wc on day 3 but that's 48 hours of exposure, which then gets repeated every other day. If that makes sense?

deedubz · Apr 22, 2018

You're going to love the Hanna.. Thing is a lifesaver and game changer for sure

deedubz · Apr 22, 2018

Norcalreef said:
This was my first time dealing with them and I’m not very impressed honestly. We will see in the end. I guess maybe next time I’ll only order from divers den so I know what I’m getting. I would have ordered other fish if I knew I was only getting 1.

Unfortunately, that's anywhere nowadays. Even "pre quarantined" fish have come in with flukes and or internal parasites for me. Every fish gets prophylactic treatment now, regardless of source

Humblefish · Apr 22, 2018

Great advice already given above. Just to weigh in, it looks like a cut/injury that has gotten infected. Treating with Kanaplex + Furan-2 + Metroplex is going to be your best option here. Unless you already have some NFG on hand: http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

Humblefish · Apr 22, 2018

If no NFG, performing a 30 min MB bath would probably be helpful: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/methylene-blue.257467/

Norcalreef · Apr 22, 2018

dwwataz said:
You're quite welcome.

Yes, you can do both kana and furan-2
The schedule would be
Day 1 furan/kanaplex
Day 2 furan-2
Day 3 waterchange THEN furan/kana
Day 4 furan-2
Day 5 waterchange THEN furan/kana

Do this for 10 days. The waterchange is every 48 hours. It looks weird at first seeing wc on day 3 but that's 48 hours of exposure, which then gets repeated every other day. If that makes sense?