Anthias - to give up or not

[Indytraveler83]

I tried to buy a group of lyretail anthias a while ago, and out of 8 animals I got, only 3 survived quarantine, and only 2 are still alive. I'm seeing that my luck isn't much better than most. Right now, those two anthias school around with my single carpenters wrasse (they apparently think he is their male).

I'm thinking about trying to buy some anthias from TSM Aquatics, after seeing quite a few high marks for them in the recent "Top 3 fish retailers" thread, and reading about their extensive QT. Has anyone bought anthias from them and had luck?

Or should I just add fairy/flasher wrasse to the system and let the two surviving anthias continue believing they are wrasse?

 

[Big G]

Bump

 

[Haydn]

Can you give some details of your QT set up. I have found Lyretail anthias do not like to be crowded, especially if they are newly added and trying to sort out an hierarchy.

 

[Jimmyneptune]

You could try avoiding QT and Straight to an established system. If you have an aquarium that is large enough to not be your main display you could try that first. With 8 anthias I would say 55 minimum better in a 75 gallon.

 

[Zionas]

Yeah I agree that maybe just adding them to an established system could be better. Their strict social hierarchy and need for lots of swimming room compared to a lot of other fish means that overcrowding them probably wouldn’t be a good idea. As long as you choose healthy specimens that are actively feeding and alert, you should be fine IMO.

 

[GlassMunky]

I tried to buy a group of lyretail anthias a while ago, and out of 8 animals I got, only 3 survived quarantine, and only 2 are still alive. I'm seeing that my luck isn't much better than most. Right now, those two anthias school around with my single carpenters wrasse (they apparently think he is their male).

I'm thinking about trying to buy some anthias from TSM Aquatics, after seeing quite a few high marks for them in the recent "Top 3 fish retailers" thread, and reading about their extensive QT. Has anyone bought anthias from them and had luck?

Or should I just add fairy/flasher wrasse to the system and let the two surviving anthias continue believing they are wrasse?

I currently have 5 Dispar anthias from TSM.
got 3 originally, but 2 turned male over about a month, so we picked up 2 more females and they happily joined the group. Now all 5 hang out together all day long.
Every one of them immediately ate food as all fish from TSM do.
don’t hesitate to order from them,they are amazing. All 12 of my fish came from TSM, and every one is healthy and happy.

 

[Jimmyneptune]

I currently have 5 Dispar anthias from TSM.
got 3 originally, but 2 turned male over about a month, so we picked up 2 more females and they happily joined the group. Now all 5 hang out together all day long.
Every one of them immediately ate food as all fish from TSM do.
don’t hesitate to order from them,they are amazing. All 12 of my fish came from TSM, and every one is healthy and happy.

Did they go straight to the tank with the other 3?

 

[Indytraveler83]

Let me clarify my QT situation:

I use a 10 gallon QT, and the animals I purchased were juvenile.

I started by purchasing 4 (three females 1 male). One of them didn't make it out of the bag alive, the other three didn't survive the night. All showed signs of velvet post mortem.

The lfs agreed to replace them. He replaced the females first (supplier had no males) and I put them through a 14 day QT treating with metro and reef rally as preventatives. No signs of illness appeared, and they were added to the display. One of them disappeared after another 2 weeks, unsure of what happened to her, bit no signs of illness on her or the others.

The male came in, I started the same QT procedure, but on the second day he showed signs of Urenema and died by the third.

My issue with anthias has been that they seem to come in VERY sick, and my success rate seems to be similar to what others experience. My hope would be to add 3, for a group of 5 anthias total.

If the crowded QT is an issue for them, I'd be willing to try adding them directly to the display if I was certain they weren't just a disease bomb as I've experienced before.

 

[Dolelo96]

Anthias can be tricky. Had 3 lyretail for about a year before losing all fish to Velvet. When I started replacing fish I bought 3 more. Both times I used a product called Safety Stop on them. It’s considered a “rapid fish quarantine”. My other fish went through normal quarantine. The ONLY reason I took this chance is because I know my lfs and now run a UV sterilizer. I can’t say I would try this with someone I don’t know. It’s been almost a year since adding them to my tank. About a month ago, the male was great that night and sick the next morning. Placed him in a hospital tank for two weeks. Treated him for internal parasites (white stringy poop) and although we got rid of the parasites, he still acted sick. One of the females had already started changing to male, so my lfs took him back and put him in his tank with a bunch of female Anthias and you would never have known he was sick. I don’t believe the males do well alone either. Just my opinion. I still have the remaining two and they swim together all day
Good luck!

 

[GlassMunky]

Did they go straight to the tank with the other 3?

Yes directly into the display and immediately accepted by the group.

they are local to me and I’ve seen their QT setup, and talked to them about what they do. I don’t do any QT myself, and that’s why I choose TSM, my fish are from them.

 

[Indytraveler83]

Yes directly into the display and immediately accepted by the group.

they are local to me and I’ve seen their QT setup, and talked to them about what they do. I don’t do any QT myself, and that’s why I choose TSM, my fish are from them.

This is exactly why I'm thinking about trying them. My QT setup isn't as good as I'd like it to be, and I've seen an increase in livestock illness at my lfs's. Last year I had about a 90% survival rate on new fish. This past six months or so it's been 50% without the anthias issues included.

I'd be happy to pay for fish once (even if it's a premium) rather than two or three times.


But to the topic at hand, I'm seeing the suggestion is to try anthias again, buy from TSM and don't QT myself? That will give them the best chance of survival?

 

[mikeintoronto]

I QT a large number of anthias of many species regularly. They aren’t always tricky but there are “rules” that I follow. (This is all my experience.)
First off, any sick fish is a write off. If it looks bad at the dealer there is little luck it will get better in your care.
A fish that’s not eating likely won’t eat with you either. Each species is different, though. A borbonius will probably eat given time. But a lyretail (pretty much most other anthias) not eating is probably going to die.
ANY signs of uronema means the fish is dead. You can try a formalin bath on the “clean” fishes prior to starting QT but once you see the red marks, put the fish into a palliative tank away from the others.
Don’t put the fish directly into the DT. You don’t want uronema in your DT. One by one the fishes will drop once they get stressed. But if you go this route, at the very least give it a formalin or FW bath
Metronidazole all anthias, even healthy ones. They are picky eaters so using metro soaked food might not work but at least keep them in the metro bath.

I guess the summary is, only pick healthy fishes lol

If lyretails aren’t working for you, try the hardier species like truncate or kashiwae. I’ve never had an issue with either of these.

I hope some of that helps.

 

[Indytraveler83]

I QT a large number of anthias of many species regularly. They aren’t always tricky but there are “rules” that I follow. (This is all my experience.)
First off, any sick fish is a write off. If it looks bad at the dealer there is little luck it will get better in your care.
A fish that’s not eating likely won’t eat with you either. Each species is different, though. A borbonius will probably eat given time. But a lyretail (pretty much most other anthias) not eating is probably going to die.
ANY signs of uronema means the fish is dead. You can try a formalin bath on the “clean” fishes prior to starting QT but once you see the red marks, put the fish into a palliative tank away from the others.
Don’t put the fish directly into the DT. You don’t want uronema in your DT. One by one the fishes will drop once they get stressed. But if you go this route, at the very least give it a formalin or FW bath
Metronidazole all anthias, even healthy ones. They are picky eaters so using metro soaked food might not work but at least keep them in the metro bath.

I guess the summary is, only pick healthy fishes lol

If lyretails aren’t working for you, try the hardier species like truncate or kashiwae. I’ve never had an issue with either of these.

I hope some of that helps.

That does help quite a bit. What's your opinion on my QT size? Is the 10 gallon QT too small? It's my understanding that anthias can stress out way easier than many fish.

The reason I was looking at TSM and talking about directly adding, is it appears they do a fairly complete QT themselves. If my QT isn't fully appropriate, maybe that's the way to go?

 

[mikeintoronto]

That does help quite a bit. What's your opinion on my QT size? Is the 10 gallon QT too small? It's my understanding that anthias can stress out way easier than many fish.

The reason I was looking at TSM and talking about directly adding, is it appears they do a fairly complete QT themselves. If my QT isn't fully appropriate, maybe that's the way to go?

I posted it in a couple of threads but I do hybrid copper/metro/TTM when I get new anthias. I use 5 gallon white containers. The anthias are more stressed in a glass tank because they see you seeing them and they don’t like it. I have a male lyretail in the final stages of QT in a glass tank and from far away you can see him swimming everywhere but once he sees me he disappears.

Adding directly is a choice you’ll need to make. The concern in this case is the usual “do they have ich or velvet?” It’s likely they will do well this way if they are parasite free but there is also the possibility they will die one by one if they aren’t conditioned well. Again, if they eat at the dealer, you’re one step ahead. But I’d do a FW dip, formalin, Safety Stop, or something prior to adding them.

I can’t get away with just dumping because the risk is too great for my tank. But you might have higher risk tolerance. Just be prepared to address things if it goes bad. Not saying it will but be proactive.

 

[Qasimja]

i treat anthias with metro for 10 days in QT i now have 1 carberryi anthias and 2 square anthias in my DT

 

[locito277]

I tried to buy a group of lyretail anthias a while ago, and out of 8 animals I got, only 3 survived quarantine, and only 2 are still alive. I'm seeing that my luck isn't much better than most. Right now, those two anthias school around with my single carpenters wrasse (they apparently think he is their male).

I'm thinking about trying to buy some anthias from TSM Aquatics, after seeing quite a few high marks for them in the recent "Top 3 fish retailers" thread, and reading about their extensive QT. Has anyone bought anthias from them and had luck?

Or should I just add fairy/flasher wrasse to the system and let the two surviving anthias continue believing they are wrasse?

Blotchies, Ventralis, and countless others. TSM is amazing.

 

[Indytraveler83]

Blotchies, Ventralis, and countless others. TSM is amazing.

I'm sensing a pattern with TSM. I just wish free shipping kicked in earlier. Might have to add.a wrasse or two to make it worth it...

 

[PSU4ME]

I got 6 lyretails from NY Aquatics, ran them through QT, metro and GC, no copper and they all made it. I think it’s all in how you set up the qt and where you get your fish from

 

[Indytraveler83]

I got 6 lyretails from NY Aquatics, ran them through QT, metro and GC, no copper and they all made it. I think it’s all in how you set up the qt and where you get your fish from

That's what I'm seeing. The problem with the anthias I have gotten so far, is they are likely past the point of saving by the time I buy them. Of the 6 I've lost, 5 of them didn't survive 48 hours.

TSM claims a 30+ day QT at their facility, and everything I'm reading so far is stating that fish from them are healthy and eating within a day with very low loss rates.

Seriously tempted to just order from them and drop directly in the display. At this point I might trust their QT more than mine.

 

[reefproaquatics]

That's what I'm seeing. The problem with the anthias I have gotten so far, is they are likely past the point of saving by the time I buy them. Of the 6 I've lost, 5 of them didn't survive 48 hours.

TSM claims a 30+ day QT at their facility, and everything I'm reading so far is stating that fish from them are healthy and eating within a day with very low loss rates.

Seriously tempted to just order from them and drop directly in the display. At this point I might trust their QT more than mine.

Cant hurt to send TSM an e-mail.