Anthias with Cloroquine Phosphate

[Brew12]

Looking for updated opinions....

I know early testing showed Anthias to be very highly sensitive to CP. I thought someone had done some testing and found that may not be the case.

Has any new information come out suggesting if CP can be used with Anthias?

 

[4FordFamily]

Looking for updated opinions....

I know early testing showed Anthias to be very highly sensitive to CP. I thought someone had done some testing and found that may not be the case.

Has any new information come out suggesting if CP can be used with Anthias?

I don't have any experience with it at all, so I can not offer much help. I will say I am seeing a lot of people having success with anthias and the Copper Power and Hanna Copper Checker pairing.

I don't even keep Anthias, so I am especially useless here LOL

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

I'm ashamed to say I killed a group of four bimac anthias early this year by adding a minimum preventative dose of CP without checking people's recommendations first. The effect was almost immediate; probably perished within fifteen minutes.

 

[Brew12]

I don't have any experience with it at all, so I can not offer much help. I will say I am seeing a lot of people having success with anthias and the Copper Power and Hanna Copper Checker pairing.

I don't even keep Anthias, so I am especially useless here LOL

I have one of the older (and decent) bottles of copper safe with the Hanna checker. I had a complete mindless moment and ended up ordering a mandarin with my Anthias. I'll need to set up 2 QT's from the looks of it. :mad:

 

[Brew12]

I'm ashamed to say I killed a group of four bimac anthias early this year by adding a minimum preventative dose of CP without checking people's recommendations first. The effect was almost immediate; probably perished within fifteen minutes.

Thanks, that is all I need to hear since I ordered 7 Bimac's. 2 QT's it is, since the Mandarin can't handle the copper.

 

[4FordFamily]

I have one of the older (and decent) bottles of copper safe with the Hanna checker. I had a complete mindless moment and ended up ordering a mandarin with my Anthias. I'll need to set up 2 QT's from the looks of it. :mad:

Whoops!

I still suspect that many copper-sensitive fish would do OK at levels of 1.75 tested properly, for only 14 days and then a transfer to a sterile QT. I am going to put that to the test soon, @HotRocks and i will keep everyone posted. A mandy won't be part of our testing. I still suspect that more of the copper-sensitive fish were really sensitive to ammonia and low oxygen levels inherent on an unprepared or improperly "cycled' quarantine. Angels, for example were considered copper-sensitive for years. I 100% disagree with this. I find that tangs are more sensitive to copper than angels when adjusted for the ammonia and oxygen issues, and neither is particularly sensitive IME at all.

That's just my opinion.

 

[Brew12]

Whoops!

I still suspect that many copper-sensitive fish would do OK at levels of 1.75 tested properly, for only 14 days and then a transfer to a sterile QT. I am going to put that to the test soon, @HotRocks and i will keep everyone posted. A mandy won't be part of our testing. I still suspect that more of the copper-sensitive fish were really sensitive to ammonia and low oxygen levels inherent on an unprepared or improperly "cycled' quarantine. Angels, for example were considered copper-sensitive for years. I 100% disagree with this. I find that tangs are more sensitive to copper than angels when adjusted for the ammonia and oxygen issues, and neither is particularly sensitive IME at all.

That's just my opinion.

I guess I can test it on the mandarin..... it would be good for the community to know but I hate putting fish at risk. I'll need to think about this.

 

[4FordFamily]

I guess I can test it on the mandarin..... it would be good for the community to know but I hate putting fish at risk. I'll need to think about this.

About the only thing I highly suspect we will have big trouble with is rays and sharks. I’ve had a couple eels go through 30 days in the past. I’ve never tried sharks or rays so I’m relying on data from others.

The eels weren’t happy and didn’t eat past the first week of copper but held out and survived. Both were snowflakes if I recall— it’s been about 6-7 years.

 

[tastyfish]

I really wouldn't even chance Anthias with Chloroquine. They tend to be fine one minute and dead the next, with no warning, even at levels which would not be considered effective on cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium.

Stick to copper for Anthias. (And I'm a huge chloroquine fan!)

 

[HotRocks]

@Brew12.

I know the consensus above is to not use CP. I agree solely on the fact of the success I've had using copper at 1.75ppm with the Hanna checker.

You didn't have much trouble with QT back when you were actively stocking your tank from what I've read. I think you will be just fine with your old bottle of coppersafe + Hanna. It's definitely the safer of the two options IMO.

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12.

I know the consensus above is to not use CP. I agree solely on the fact of the success I've had using copper at 1.75ppm with the Hanna checker.

You didn't have much trouble with QT back when you were actively stocking your tank from what I've read. I think you will be just fine with your old bottle of coppersafe + Hanna. It's definitely the safer of the two options IMO.

Anthias were my twho non-explained failures. First batch I lost in QT. Second group of 3 died within a week of adding to my DT. I guess this is my QT nemesis. Hopefully having the Hanna checker will make a difference, if copper was the cause.

 

[HotRocks]

Anthias were my twho non-explained failures. First batch I lost in QT. Second group of 3 died within a week of adding to my DT. I guess this is my QT nemesis. Hopefully having the Hanna checker will make a difference, if copper was the cause.

I don't have any experience with them as it's never been a fish I desired to keep. I can say however if you want to try my super aggressive approach maybe it will work on them? As you well know with much help from Bobby and Jason this is what we've had success with, I have only lost 2/20 fish since using this method.

One was a wrasse spinal injury and the other was an idol that showed up so covered in velvet it was ridiculous. No unexplained dropping dead in QT as before.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

 

[Brew12]

I don't have any experience with them as it's never been a fish I desired to keep. I can say however if you want to try my super aggressive approach maybe it will work on them? As you well know with much help from Bobby and Jason this is what we've had success with, I have only lost 2/20 fish since using this method.

One was a wrasse spinal injury and the other was an idol that showed up so covered in velvet it was ridiculous. No unexplained dropping dead in QT as before.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

Things have changed since my last go around with QT but I'm going to try and stick with what worked, which is very similar to what you do. The only thing I don't do is treat for internal parasites without some other symptom such as not eating or white stringy poo. I don't expect Anthias to eat any medicate food for at least the first week. They are picky! It's hard enough getting them to eat live food for the first day or two. I've got a rock in my sump waiting to go to the QT which should be crawling with pods, have a bag of pods coming with the shipment, and have several types of frozen on hand.

I do like the idea of pre-dosing the QT with copper so I'll do that tonight. Still have to decide if I want to trial copper on the Mandarin or just play it safe and treat him separate with CP. Tough call....

 

[HotRocks]

Things have changed since my last go around with QT but I'm going to try and stick with what worked, which is very similar to what you do. The only thing I don't do is treat for internal parasites without some other symptom such as not eating or white stringy poo. I don't expect Anthias to eat any medicate food for at least the first week. They are picky! It's hard enough getting them to eat live food for the first day or two. I've got a rock in my sump waiting to go to the QT which should be crawling with pods, have a bag of pods coming with the shipment, and have several types of frozen on hand.

I do like the idea of pre-dosing the QT with copper so I'll do that tonight. Still have to decide if I want to trial copper on the Mandarin or just play it safe and treat him separate with CP. Tough call....

Yeah. It is a tough call on the Mandy. My wife really wants one.

I think there is a good chance they may tolerate copper at 1.75ppm.

I also have thought about trying one in copper at 1.55-1.60ppm. Of course there is also risk treating that low and letting something eek through... like you said it is definitely a tough call.

 

[Brew12]

Yeah. It is a tough call on the Mandy. My wife really wants one.

I think there is a good chance they may tolerate copper at 1.75ppm.

I also have thought about trying one in copper at 1.55-1.60ppm. Of course there is also risk treating that low and letting something eek through... like you said it is definitely a tough call.

I had no issues getting my male through QT using CP. This is my effort to get a mating pair.

I'll considering risking the single fish in an effort to expand our knowledge of treatment. As I'm sure you understand, I won't risk my DT by treating at a sub therapuetic level.

 

[HotRocks]

I had no issues getting my male through QT using CP. This is my effort to get a mating pair.

I'll considering risking the single fish in an effort to expand our knowledge of treatment. As I'm sure you understand, I won't risk my DT by treating at a sub therapuetic level.

I understand completely. It's not a risk I would take either in regards to the DT and sub-therapuetic treatment. I would go the CP route on several fish if we had a good source for a prescription here in central Indiana. We just don't unfortunately.

 

[Brew12]

I understand completely. It's not a risk I would take either in regards to the DT and sub-therapuetic treatment. I would go the CP route on several fish if we had a good source for a prescription here in central Indiana. We just don't unfortunately.

My vet was able to source the CP for me at a very reasonable cost. I got lucky! Probably didn't hurt that I asked less than 2 months before he retired.

 

[tastyfish]

I don't usually go the copper route (but would 100% for Anthias). I would say, get them settled and feeding well first. Then slowly introduce the copper, building to therapeutic levels.

I'll be using this method to QT a shoal of pseudanthias squamipinnis, so let us know how you get on with your anthias and what levels you are using.

 

[AcanthurusRex]

I took 6 ignitus through QT with CP. All lived...
However, my CP had expired according to the bottle. It was only a bit over a year old.
In addition, I made the mistake of adding a yellow tang. About 3 weeks in the tang quit eating and started flashing. This was my only QT failure, so far.
I've been using CopperPower ever since the Hanna tester became available. I like being able to test the water to make sure it is at the proper Cu level. With CP you just assume that it is effective. The water tends to cloud more with CP but I need to do more water changes using Cu.

 

[Brew12]

I took 6 ignitus through QT with CP. All lived...
However, my CP had expired according to the bottle. It was only a bit over a year old.
In addition, I made the mistake of adding a yellow tang. About 3 weeks in the tang quit eating and started flashing. This was my only QT failure, so far.
I've been using CopperPower ever since the Hanna tester became available. I like being able to test the water to make sure it is at the proper Cu level. With CP you just assume that it is effective. The water tends to cloud more with CP but I need to do more water changes using Cu.

The cases of anthias surviving CP treatment are very few and far between so I'm glad you shared. Still, there are too many cases of anthias dying in the first 2 or 3 days of CP treatment for me to risk it. Right now they are in 0.85ppm of copper (Coppersafe). I'll ramp that up over the next few days. The Hanna tester really is a game changer from the last time I QT'd. Other than Anthias, I've had great success using Coppersafe. Not sure why I've struggled so much with them. Hoping I get this one right, and the checker may be the key to making that happen.