The final paper I did to earn my Masters degree was based on probiotic usage (although it was in humans- a review in gut microbial colonization along with usage of probiotics in prevention of neonatal enterocolitis) and I am extremely interested in this area. Although it is extremely early in the planning stages, later this year there is a CHANCE that I will investigate the microbiome in a way that has not been done in saltwater/reef tanks as of yet (it related to this thread because we might be looking for volunteers that use probiotics in their tanks, along with Zeovit, along with those who do and don't skim... etc). I can't say a whole lot yet because it is in the planning stages but we might get some better answers about using probiotics in reef tanks.
It doesn't seem that companies share a whole lot of info about what they put in their probiotics used in reef tanks ("proprietary.."). Also, there is very little oversight over probiotics (even in human supplementation) so I would suggest that this could be true for aquarium probiotics as well.
Slight clarification about oversight. Our company is subject to the FDA and follow FDA guidelines for food production. FSMA created a lot more work for us since everything we produce is fit for human consumption. I'm assuming you were referencing application and usage. FDA restrictions vary depending on if the probiotic is sold as a food ingredient, drug, or dietary supplement. The majority of probiotics are sold as dietary supplements which the FDA does not need to approve before consumption. If they are proven unsafe the FDA can remove these items.
If you are looking for ID on a sample or two I may be able to sneak it in on our riboprinter. 23S
That’s cool.
Double check what is is that can be sold here in the Us to Pro mote good Bacterial growth in terms of gut health.
I don’t have all the bookmarks now , it was more than just cultures.
I dumped most of that and just started fermenting and made diet changes and also settled on one well documented supplement with several strains.
Most of the pro bitoics in Reefing are a reference to the nitrifying bacteria , even though there are actually only a few. 7 I belive , from taking to dr Tim and other research.
As it’s generally misunderstood what the do and how they work , specifically keeping the colony healthy and procreating in the tank ,
Numerous products and AD schemes are designed to make one belive constant addition of them is needed.
Oddly , a product like Dr Tim’s is not markedted as pro biotic , even though it is in fact , Bactria.
Other bacterias discussed in terms of coral health are populations that some coral seem to “farm” specifically and others that seem to behave like our wild yeasts that also work as part of the natural food web.
Many reefers , IMO, confuse those when discussing Probiotics And also biological diversity. The latter is kinda cutting edge and ongoing in oceanography.
The link I had in my previous post has a lot of information on it.
"Government regulation of probiotics in the United States is complex. Depending on a probiotic product’s intended use, the FDA might regulate it as a dietary supplement, a food ingredient, or a drug.
Many probiotics are sold as dietary supplements, which do not require FDA approval before they are marketed. Dietary supplement labels may make claims about how the product affects the structure or function of the body without FDA approval, but they cannot make health claims (claims that the product reduces the risk of a disease) without the FDA’s consent. (For more information about dietary supplements, see the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health’s fact sheet Using Dietary Supplements Wisely.)"
I'm wondering if you are thinking of pre-biotics? We currently have a few cultures in animal trials and one in human trials. There is a lot of missing information about the impact of bacteria on the human body. Truly fascinating.
The term "probiotic" in the reefing community has been slightly misused. I guess the application would be okay if you consider the reef tank as a "host". Likely wouldn't be accepted in the scientific community. The OP referenced the addition of a human probiotic to mysis he was feeding to his fish. My main concern would be the volume. LRS promotes 1 million cfu/g in their food. Most human probiotics are in the 5-25 billion+ cfu/g range. A billion is a thousand million. That volume would likely be significant in the reef.
The majority of bacteria are simple. They eat and multiply. It gets complicated when bacteria start to compete for resources/niches.
There could be a few reasons why a particular strain of bacteria needs to be continually reintroduced.
Manufacturers/vendors confuse the issue by labeling environmental bacteria as probiotics. With that said I can’t find a lot of saltwater items being sold as “probiotics”.
This article discusses the nomenclature issue a bit part way through;
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5339234/
There is more if anyone is interested in reading it. “The use of the term “probiotic” to simply describe microorganisms that can provide benefits to the host (pro – “in favor of something” and “biotic” – biological) or their ecosystems would be a natural adaptation of this term. However, we must also consider that the most accurate meaning of the term “probiotic” is restricted and encompasses features that are needed to determine probiotic assignment.“
I picked up a live clam the other day, put it through the blade ginder and broadcast fed the tank. everyone seems to snap up the tiny bits. i presume the mother nature "probiotics" that were in the ocean water from where that clam was harvested is now in my tank.
I am enjoying a belgian double trappist ale I brewed. Lot's of probiotics in that. It's not just my fish and corals that enjoy probiotics.
I'd love for
@PaulB to drop in and share his experience introducing gut bacteria in to his tanks for 40+ years
Ha yes! He also collects mud and live food for his tank. Our closed loop systems can likely generate severe selective forces on bacteria populations. Clearly it’s not a major issue considering that there are thousands of successful reefs. While anecdotal,
@PaulB ’s success is great to see, and does make me wonder what the exact mechanism is (live food vs bacteria, etc).
