Are LED lights REALLY all that different ....

[ca1ore]

This has been itching at me for a while now, so apologies in advance, but ....

Are the premium LED fixtures really all that different? New light comes out and ‘it’s the best thing ever’ or ‘my corals have never grown better’ ..... Don’t all these builders, established and fly by nights, essentially have access to the same kinds of electronics and the same range of LEDs. Oh but my light uses the newest far chartreuse LEDs ..... puhleese ....

I bought a bunch of ETM radion gen4 pro fixtures to replace some ailing reefbreeders photons. Radions have nicer fit and finish and a more sophisticated interface, and overall I do like them better (or have convinced myself I like them better LOL), but they really don’t grow or color up the corals any better.

Is there any true innovation in LED lighting or is it just marginalizm run amok?

 

[Peach02]

I think the main advancements currently are in efficiency, moonlight, colour blending and spread so if you consider that advancements which I do then yes there is innovation

 

[Big E]

The only advancements in the past 8 years in tech that will help corals grow and color better were the addition of violet LEDs and the brands that create a smoother more overall coverage without hot spots.

They still overrate the coverage of single units........you need lots of them to match traditional lighting.

 

[lilgrounchuck]

All things being equal to a certain extent (diodes, drivers, power supply, etc.) for an led light, the only real differences are in number of certain spectrum diodes on the board, placement of them and lenses for better blending, housing, and fancy interactive options for setting timers/effects. In the end though, a 3w Cree diode is a 3w Cree diode. Charging as much as they do for some of these name brand fixtures is insane, but people are willing to pay.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

What is LED Binning?

LED Binning is the process of grouping LEDs together to maintain a tighter control of the possible output variations. LED Binning can have serious implications on performance, cost and lead time for manufacturers, but it is an invaluable process to specifiers and end-use customers.

 

[Amado]

led are better light source
1) it uses less power to light the same coral so that saves you money.
2)They produces almost no heat so you don’t have to run a chiller s that also saves you money.
3) the bulbs last longer so they don’t need to be replace (led last 10yrs) t5/ halides need to be replace every year.
4) LEDs can be configured and dimmed down.
5) leds allow us to remove or add any color at whatever intensity we like.
6) they led light fixtures have a more compact look. With leds you can have a small puck light a tank.
7) led are the future so any lighting break through will come in a led format.
8) companies are moving away from old light technology. So I will be harder to find lights for your t5.
9) companies are making LED bars that look and Perform like t5s
and the costs for these LED bars are about the same as T5 fixtures
10) you don’t want to be that guy with VCR tapes. When the whole world has gone digital.

every manufacturer has its own proprietary products. You should buy what fits your needs and budget.
if you can’t afford to buy 3-4K to light your tank you have other light choices that can light a 4ft tank for less than $300

you should buy the lights that best fit your tanks needs.

i think it’s crazy for someone to spend $400 for a refugium light.
when I can grow cheato with a $30 Amazon light.

 

[lilgrounchuck]

led are better light source
1) it uses less power to light the same coral so that saves you money.
2)They produces almost no heat so you don’t have to run a chiller s that also saves you money.
3) the bulbs last longer so they don’t need to be replace (led last 10yrs) t5/ halides need to be replace every year.
4) LEDs can be configured and dimmed down.
5) leds allow us to remove or add any color at whatever intensity we like.
6) they led light fixtures have a more compact look. With leds you can have a small puck light a tank.
7) led are the future so any lighting break through will come in a led format.
8) companies are moving away from old light technology. So I will be harder to find lights for your t5.
9) companies are making LED bars that look and Perform like t5s
and the costs for these LED bars are about the same as T5 fixtures
10) you don’t want to be that guy with VCR tapes. When the whole world has gone digital.

every manufacturer has its own proprietary products. You should buy what fits your needs and budget.
if you can’t afford to buy 3-4K to light your tank you have other light choices that can light a 4ft tank for less than $300

you should buy the lights that best fit your tanks needs.

i think it’s crazy for someone to spend $400 for a refugium light.
when I can grow cheato with a $30 Amazon light.

I look at a lot of things (not just this hobby) the way I look at Walmart or Kroger brand vs Kellogg or post when buying cereal. They all usually come from the same manufacturing plant but hit the shelves with a different box and logo. Sure, sometimes there are differences, but in my opinion, not worth paying 3x the price to do the same job. A lot of people will use the “but this one has a warranty” excuse to justify added costs, but my experience has been (and this is over the spectrum of all different types of things I’ve bought over the years) that manufacturers rarely honor their warranty, and if they do they make it so inconvenient for the customer that most people just give up and toss the product. If I buy something and warranty coverage is a concern I’ll go buy local and get the add on coverage from the retailer and let them handle dealing with the manufacturer.

 

[Homebrewer]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that all LEDs are not created equal. I bought LEDs when they first started to become available. The unit in purchased did not live up to the claims made by the company. Corals started dying, and in my ignorance, I thought I was having a tank crash and scrambled to find a reason. I looked at everything and finally I realized that these “great” LEDs weren’t even strong enough to sustain softies.

I do believe some LEDs are better than others, but what you are asking might be best defined by the law of diminishing returns. If one LED costs “x” and performs at “y” level... the next great thing comes along along an costs “x+$300” but only performs at “y+1%”, is it worth it? I suppose that’s a matter of opinion... and cost wouldn’t be the only consideration. Maybe it’s the size, or warranty, or look of the unit, etc.

As for me, I look at it like this: I’m not a car guy, I don’t care what I drive. I COULD buy an expensive, fancy ride with all the bells and whistles, but instead I drive a compact Honda, that does have some creature comforts but is nothing special. At the end of the day, they both will get you to work!

 

[oreo54]

Charging as much as they do for some of these name brand fixtures is insane, but people are willing to pay.

high, yes.. Insane? As compared to what?

Hamilton FijiSun 48'' 4 X 54W T5 HO Lighting System Upgrade w/ Giesemann Planted Tank Lamps Package

Hamilton FijiSun 48' 4 X 54W T5 HO Lighting System Upgrade w/ Giesemann Planted Tank Lamps Package

www.marineandreef.com

$2.45/watt

Typical LED cost is about $2(corrected for hype) to $4 per watt......
For the extra dollars you get convenience and programming. Smaller form factor and better design...(arguable)

Same differences between LEDs

NOTE: Use of wattage assumes close to or equal watt efficiency.. like 100L/Watt.
A not unreasonable assumption.

 

[ca1ore]

What is LED Binning?

LED Binning is the process of grouping LEDs together to maintain a tighter control of the possible output variations. LED Binning can have serious implications on performance, cost and lead time for manufacturers, but it is an invaluable process to specifiers and end-use customers.

Not really sure of your point. Surely all the LED fixture manufacturers know this and have equal access to the 'better' diodes. OK, maybe the budget fixtures make 'inferior' choices, but does that really translate into differential performance. I suppose everyone's got there opinion on whether it does or not. No data though.

 

[ca1ore]

led are better light source
1) it uses less power to light the same coral so that saves you money.
2)They produces almost no heat so you don’t have to run a chiller s that also saves you money.
3) the bulbs last longer so they don’t need to be replace (led last 10yrs) t5/ halides need to be replace every year.
4) LEDs can be configured and dimmed down.
5) leds allow us to remove or add any color at whatever intensity we like.
6) they led light fixtures have a more compact look. With leds you can have a small puck light a tank.
7) led are the future so any lighting break through will come in a led format.
8) companies are moving away from old light technology. So I will be harder to find lights for your t5.
9) companies are making LED bars that look and Perform like t5s
and the costs for these LED bars are about the same as T5 fixtures
10) you don’t want to be that guy with VCR tapes. When the whole world has gone digital.

every manufacturer has its own proprietary products. You should buy what fits your needs and budget.
if you can’t afford to buy 3-4K to light your tank you have other light choices that can light a 4ft tank for less than $300

you should buy the lights that best fit your tanks needs.

i think it’s crazy for someone to spend $400 for a refugium light.
when I can grow cheato with a $30 Amazon light.

Perhaps you missed my point. I made no claims as to LED superiority/inferiority to other forms of lighting, just whether there's really any difference between modern LED fixtures, particularly the premium ones (despite companies herniating themselves to draw distinctions in their marketing). That a product is 'proprietary' does not make if fundamentally different or a better perfomer.

 

[Webslinger]

What's not to like about LED lights?

 

[ca1ore]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that all LEDs are not created equal. I bought LEDs when they first started to become available. The unit in purchased did not live up to the claims made by the company. Corals started dying, and in my ignorance, I thought I was having a tank crash and scrambled to find a reason. I looked at everything and finally I realized that these “great” LEDs weren’t even strong enough to sustain softies.

That's an interesting observation. I too bought some early LED lights (when they were mostly just blue and white LEDs) and they perfomaed very poorly. In fact, the move from those fixtures to ones that offerred full spectrum light was probably the last really notable innovation …. but that's 6-7 years ago.

 

[Victoria M]

led are better light source
1) it uses less power to light the same coral so that saves you money.
2)They produces almost no heat so you don’t have to run a chiller s that also saves you money.
3) the bulbs last longer so they don’t need to be replace (led last 10yrs) t5/ halides need to be replace every year.
4) LEDs can be configured and dimmed down.
5) leds allow us to remove or add any color at whatever intensity we like.
6) they led light fixtures have a more compact look. With leds you can have a small puck light a tank.
7) led are the future so any lighting break through will come in a led format.
8) companies are moving away from old light technology. So I will be harder to find lights for your t5.
9) companies are making LED bars that look and Perform like t5s
and the costs for these LED bars are about the same as T5 fixtures
10) you don’t want to be that guy with VCR tapes. When the whole world has gone digital.

every manufacturer has its own proprietary products. You should buy what fits your needs and budget.
if you can’t afford to buy 3-4K to light your tank you have other light choices that can light a 4ft tank for less than $300

you should buy the lights that best fit your tanks needs.

i think it’s crazy for someone to spend $400 for a refugium light.
when I can grow cheato with a $30 Amazon light.

Hey what is that amazon light? The 50$ one I got shocked me so I am in the market.

 

[Homebrewer]

That's an interesting observation. I too bought some early LED lights (when they were mostly just blue and white LEDs) and they perfomaed very poorly. In fact, the move from those fixtures to ones that offerred full spectrum light was probably the last really notable innovation …. but that's 6-7 years ago.

The company that made them actually replaced them twice, so by the time I gave up on them I actually had three different versions. I don't know much about the electronics involved, but I know that the diode for each version looked very different. The company just couldn't get it right.

I envy a lot of those who, when they switched to LEDs, bought "right" the first time. I've made relatively few mistakes like that in this hobby in my many years. I often buy the right pumps and they last forever... I once had a skimmer that I NEVER cleaned last nine years (would have lasted longer if I took care of it). For some reason though, I didn't get lighting correct until about my third try, and I'm still trying to see how I might improve my situation.

 

[Amado]

Hey what is that amazon light? The 50$ one I got shocked me so I am in the market.

this what I use. It’s water proof.

Waterproof 100W LED Grow Light Full Spectrum, New Technology COB LED Grow Light, Natural Heat Dissipation Without Noise, Suitable for Plants All Growing Stage Indoor or Outdoor.

 

[Victoria M]

this what I use. It’s water proof.

Waterproof 100W LED Grow Light Full Spectrum, New Technology COB LED Grow Light, Natural Heat Dissipation Without Noise, Suitable for Plants All Growing Stage Indoor or Outdoor.

Thank you very much! It does look like it would work for. It is in my “cart”.

 

[naoki]

LED fixture design is basically a balancing act of the efficiency, total output, and cost.

Unfortunately, in the reef industry, the major companies do not disclose basic performance stats like photosynthetic photon efficacy (PPE) or photosynthetic photon flux (PPF, which is different from PPF density = PPFD). Integrating spheres or goniophotometers to measure PPF are expensive (for hobbyists), but it is lame that reputable companies don't give these kinds of basic stats. Horticultural grow light companies used to be shady like that, but major companies disclose their efficiency specs now. So I'm not sure how efficient those super expensive reef LED fixtures are. In general, the cheapest fixture isn't the cheapest in the long term even if your electricity is cheap.

To answer the original question, the efficiency can be dramaticaly different depends on the fixture design. Some of cheap LED fixtures may be getting the efficacy (PPE) slightly above 1 micromol/J, which is only slightly better than T5HO (around 0.9 micromol/J). But good quality LED fixture can have two times higher efficiency; PPE higher than 2.5-3 micromol/J. So a good fixture can provide the same amount of light with 1/2 energy consumption of a cheap LED fixture. These numbers are based on horticultural light, but it would be applicable to reef light.

The cost of electricity around here (Alaska) is one of the most expensive in the US (24 cents/kWh), so I put the importance on highest efficiency when I make my LED fixtures. This means that I have to use more diodes driven at low current to get sufficient total output (in addition to selecting more expensive diodes with higher efficiency). Initially, the fixture costs more, but after a year or two, it becomes cheaper than buying cheap LEDs. But if your electricity isn't expensive, those cheap stuff might be ok for a couple years.

 

[jda]

Many people are in love with this fixture, or another, because of the form factor and apps. Surely, we can all agree that these are different... even though this has nothing to do with the tank inhabitants.

Other than form factor or apps, I have seen no real changes since many colors replaced blue & white. There are different chips, but still the same thing of many colors. There has been reflectors, lenses and wide-open all along. Panels/pucks are the same.

You can argue that other types of lighting have made advances since the last big-time LED advance.

 

[oreo54]

You can argue that other types of lighting have made advances since the last big-time LED advance.

Such as?.. Honestly curious..