Are LEDS really the future?

[RavePartyReef]

I've had LEDs in most of my tanks, and really love the light it brings to the tank. The crisp, bright look is unmatched...but when we talk color and health of corals....I'm in doubt.
I currently own a 20 gal long, and have t5s because I wanted even distribution over the length of the tank...I must say most corals if not all of them have gotten a better coloration then when they were in led. Granted, I have a shallow tank and believe the intensity of the light LEDs provide in deeper tanks can't be matched by t5s. In my case, it is like night and day, I bought many of my corals from a retailer that had them in a 180 gal with 5 AI Sols and even though I bought them because they had amazing colors, since the have been in my tank, the color change is undeniable. The tank the corals were in is also very well taken care of, with great skimming, and the owner has tons of high end pieces, so I can only say light could be the culprit. I got this lobo, that used to be orange in his tank, and in my t5s has become, redish, with the fleshy parts looking way more "alive". My zoas also, have been doubling size in way less time and the coloring reds, blues, pinks with much more intense shades.
I've never thought I would veer towards t5s, being an led guy for many years. For shallower tanks, however I encourage reefers to test LEDs vs t5s and see if for yourself the difference in color and growth...

 

[Bootstrap]

What LED's are you using? I think you have ID''d one problem already, depth.

 

[Z-man]

I can honestly say I have purchased pieces that were grown under LED's with great color and I get them home under my MH and they're brown. They eventually color up, but it does show the difference between the lighting. That said, I have replaced the power compact actinic bulbs with LED's. I still love the color pop the blues give the corals.

 

[RavePartyReef]

One thing I wanted to bring up was that I shop for corals at a very good store in Manhattan, and all frags I brought home from there picked up on color quite a bit. The lighting system there is composed of Sols, Radions, kessils. One day I mentioned to a guy who works there about the t5 improving the colors of the corals in my tank and thought he would laugh at me. Instead he said before the "led" wave, all their tanks were supplied with t5s(ATI) and that they used to have better color on the livestock they carried. He told me LEDs are cheaper on the bill and the way to go now for convenience and dimmers and stuff but that when color is at play, there is a difference...
I just wanted to say the purpose here is to gather opinions and I do not mean to upset people saying this is better than that...I'm only sharing something that makes me scratch my head at times and not know what direction we should be going with this...

 

[RavePartyReef]

What LED's are you using? I think you have ID''d one problem already, depth.

I had the AI nano. I tried different heights from the top until I found the right spot. I had a cube then, 15x15x15. I switched to t5s because I just wanted to get even coverage of the tank without having to purchase 1 more nano module.
T5s can't reach bottoms and the penetration of LEDs is much better as we agree here...

 

[TANKSALOT]

Did you stop and consider that maybe, just maybe, you have the wrong LED's?
Are they custom or factory?
Lot's reason for the T5's looking like a better choice if the LED's are not tweaked to the application they are on.

 

[RavePartyReef]

I can honestly say I have purchased pieces that were grown under LED's with great color and I get them home under my MH and they're brown. They eventually color up, but it does show the difference between the lighting. That said, I have replaced the power compact actinic bulbs with LED's. I still love the color pop the blues give the corals.

I believe there has been comparisons between mh and LEDs in some forums with technical data to assure same par, etc.. And I believe LEDs came on top.

 

[RavePartyReef]

Did you stop and consider that maybe, just maybe, you have the wrong LED's?
Are they custom or factory?
Lot's reason for the T5's looking like a better choice if the LED's are not tweaked to the application they are on.

AI Sol Nano(top led company), over 15x15x15 cube(I believe the light is appropriate for the tank). Tank husbandry has been same for both, and corals were transported from cube to 20 long. Had corals for 1 year + so that is why I started wondering

 

[jedimasterben]

The main reason for anemic color is cool white LEDs.

 

[Bluesaltwater87]

I use 10 watt LEDs on my tanks and i have built them for friends of mine and they said that they are as good or better than there MH.
Here is my Question for you. Do you have any purple LEDs. On my 150 gallon tank i have 20 of each of the white colors (cool, warm, nut)
16 Royal blue LEDs, 15 Blue LEDs, 8 Purple LEDs and my corals are growing fast and have been for 3 years. I just think you have under
power LEDs on your tank. My tank is 36" tall and i have Brain Coral on my sand and it grows about 1" every 6 weeks or so. But i would say try a differnt type
of LEDs and see if you get a better reaction.

 

[jedimasterben]

I think you mean violet, not purple.

 

[RavePartyReef]

I use 10 watt LEDs on my tanks and i have built them for friends of mine and they said that they are as good or better than there MH.
Here is my Question for you. Do you have any purple LEDs. On my 150 gallon tank i have 20 of each of the white colors (cool, warm, nut)
16 Royal blue LEDs, 15 Blue LEDs, 8 Purple LEDs and my corals are growing fast and have been for 3 years. I just think you have under
power LEDs on your tank. My tank is 36" tall and i have Brain Coral on my sand and it grows about 1" every 6 weeks or so. But i would say try a differnt type
of LEDs and see if you get a better reaction.

I appreciate the input. The light I used was not underpowered, I say it because I did lots of research into it and have seen those same units at stores to compare it. I would say LEDs are better than the mh, depending on the application. In other words, I would love to see same technical data for LEDs and t5s over time in SHALLoW tanks, since deeper tanks such comparison would not be possible due to light penetration of LEDs being superior.

 

[jedimasterben]

Light penetration depends solely on optics used on the LEDs.

 

[Pappy]

AI Sol Nano(top led company), over 15x15x15 cube(I believe the light is appropriate for the tank). Tank husbandry has been same for both, and corals were transported from cube to 20 long. Had corals for 1 year + so that is why I started wondering

U just answered your own question...ai are def not the best...out of the factory radions by far until recently when the Vegas came out. I have seen ai sols over tanks and the colors are horrible due to lack of spectrum. Purchasing the right full spectrum led fixture or DIY makes all the difference in the world. I can confidently say that my DIY fixture with royal blue, blue, cool white, red, and green has been unmatched by ANY commercial fixture.

 

[jedimasterben]

Even the new Radion is still lacking in comparison to fixtures using more 'basic' arrays with neutral/warm white LEDs. A build with Bridgelux BXRA 950-B chips, eight XT-E RB, and a single XP-E cool blue would excel against the Radion.

This is why I prefer the Maxspect R420R - their use of warm white LEDs is commendable and leads to excellent coloration and color rendition.

 

[ckozma]

Light penetration depends solely on optics used on the LEDs.

This is absolutely true. The optics are the main reason that some people say they don't like LEDs. Ai finally figured out that you don't need 40 and 70 degree lens unless you have a tank deeper than 24". Too narrow of an optic can really screw up things.

 

[guichi1210]

I have an Icecap fixture that included 4 T5s and 4 LED (fit into the T5 endcaps) lights and IMO too much LED made my acans orange and chalices pale. My zoas love them. I love the color pop that the LEDs give to my corals but I decided to only have LEDs ON for 4 hours at the end of the day and T5s for 8 and is working great for the last six months. I believe LEDs are here to stay and only MHs are at risk of losing their place in the hobby.

 

[creefer]

This is absolutely true. The optics are the main reason that some people say they don't like LEDs. Ai finally figured out that you don't need 40 and 70 degree lens unless you have a tank deeper than 24". Too narrow of an optic can really screw up things.

I agree to an extent. However, if someone wants to mount their fixture 4' above a 16" deep tank for example, then 70 and / or 40 degree optics become a viable option. In this case, you get the amount of light you need where you need without excessive spillage of light, right?

 

[RavePartyReef]

I agree totally LEDs are here to stay, my point was I brought corals from one tank to another and saw a gradual color change/appearance of the specimen. I also see LEDs with all different colors in a fixture and wonder what color should that coral really be in natural conditions. For example, lets say a t5 fixture has actinics, 10ks. Some colors would be accentuated. If the coral is yellow, it would look yellow, period. Now I place an led fixture with purples, greens, all diff whites, royal blues, etc, many colors would "pop" but what color is the coral now... What would allow us to say it is healthy, under ideal lighting? I could place black lights on a reef tank and it would look like the corals are on steroids from Mars. They could be declining and dye with different colors "popping". My point here is not the look LEDs give corals, nor comparing mhs to LEDs, nor saying one can't get good growth with LEDs...I was hoping to gather other opinions from reefers that had tried a switch by occasion and experienced difference response from corals. I'm an experienced hobbyist and now conditions matter, and am saying after isolating lighting from both systems, I noticed a change. Am I 100% right on all parameters for comparison? Probably not, as nothing in a system like a reef is always the same. There is why I asked for anybody that maybe would have data to prove something along these lines

 

[Wankell]

These so called "high end" companies are not even putting half the effort they could be into the science behind the growth and color of corals. Spend a few minutes to learn about the PAR/PUR of your reef tank lighting and you will quickly see what your problem may be. It's not so much how much light you have as what kind of light you have. You need to measure PAR/PUR, compare it to the photosynthesis curves, see where the chlorophyll A and B values are at and try to match them.