Are there disease resistant fish?

[merlberg]

Like Paul B I have never QTd a fish in my life and or the last 25 years or so I have not had any disease in any of my tanks. Lucky you may think..... I think luck plays little part in it. I have most probably introduced the likes of white spot on more than one occasion and yes although for a few days after introducing a new fish I have seen flicking I have never seen any spots ever. I don't treat my tank unless you call the fact I use Oxydators as treatment or you consider the foods I feed and the fish oil I add to my foods some of which are home made. IME healthy fish either don't catch many of the diseases we hear about or they fend them off well before they become a major issue. Controversial, well yes but my fish live long lives and many spawn regular for me. The health of my animals speaks for itself however but I must be doing something wrong for my fish not to catch the likes of white spot.

What kind of food are you feeding them and how do u give them fish oil? In the food?

 

[4FordFamily]

So you can't see my purple firefish nor my Royal Grammas and Midas blenny or that you think these are "exceptionally hardy" Really? They maybe considered easy to keep but if you google white spot and Royal Grammas or white spot and firefish even damsels pick up white spot without too much trouble all providing of course they don't get what I would call the "correct care and feeding" Powder blues are not considered a difficult fish to care for but as with all and as I point out providing you provide for whatever fish you keep needs.

I've easily kept them in tanks with ich in the past, utilizing "ich management". Your tank is beautiful by the way.

 

[Humblefish]

Powder blues are not considered a difficult fish to care for but as with all and as I point out providing you provide for whatever fish you keep needs.

From a disease perspective, Acanthurus Tangs are "difficult" because: (a) Their mucous coat is reduced in composition (b) They are typically collected in crest zones, where oxygen levels are high.

(a) Translates to their skin being afforded little protection from theronts seeking to latch on. The thick slime coat of a wrasse, clownfish, mandarin is a much better shield.

(b) Translates to them needing O2 rich water, at least until they make the adjustment of being in captivity. If theronts invade the gills first, latch on and excess fluid builds up around the insertion points ... your Acanthurus Tang may die due to asphyxiation before you ever see evidence of ich on the body.

 

[merlberg]

I've never understood why proper QT & proper nutrition need to be mutually exclusive. You can soak food in fish oil (and feed other vitamin enriched foods) whilst in QT just as easily as you can in a DT. Take my advice when it comes to QT, but listen to people like @atoll @Paul B @robert once your fish is in the DT ... and you & your fish will be happy happy happy.

What other vitamins besides fish oil would anyone recommend please?

 

[jsker]

I have been keeping saltwater aquariums for just as long as @atoll but took a break. I have not QT my fish ever, dipped, just acclimated slow. I did have an out break a couple of times, one back when we played video games on computer and thought that mono chrome monitor were the thing of the future and one last October. I lost a few fish in the past out break. I have been feed my brew since and have been very fortunate of not having any more out breaks. Like use feed right, sleep right and keep the stress down on the kids and everything stay happy. Mess around with to much and stress the system the fish start getting sick. I guess this is old school.

 

[jsker]

What other vitamins besides fish oil would anyone recommend please?

Go to page one and I posted what I use

 

[Duke4Life]

Not knocking the vitamins as I have no experience using them. But are they really necessary? To me while people may need to use vitamins for this or that on occasions, but long term it comes down to what you intake. My opinion is if vitamins are needed, time to find a different food or include more of a variety. Clams don't knock em til you've tried them

 

[Humblefish]

Not knocking the vitamins as I have no experience using them. But are they really necessary?

I feel they are. It's only a matter of time before your fish gets injured from fighting, cut on a rock or stung by a coral. Soaking fish food in vitamin supplements gives the ol' immune system a boost to expedite the healing process. Or ward off infection. Omega 3 fish oil (that Paul recommends) is a great food soak.

Fish need vitamins just like people do. And nowadays you can't count on processed food (fish or human) to provide that benefit.

 

[Humblefish]

What other vitamins besides fish oil would anyone recommend please?

Selcon, Zoecon, Vita-chem are what I use. But there are others.

 

[merlberg]

Go to page one and I posted what I use

Thanks

 

[FeliciaLynn]

Just to weigh in on the vitamins discussion, I do agree that they can have a benefit for supplementing processed food. If you're using food that isn't nutritionally complete or aren't offering much variety, vitamins can definitely help. However, I buy fresh (sashimi grade) seafood from a local seafood market and make my own blend with a variety of seafood including clams, scallops, silversides, salmon, squid, and prawns. I feel with this unprocessed food and the variety, that vitamin supplementation would be surperfluous. Basically, I really just think this comes down to what you're feeding.

 

[atoll]

From a disease perspective, Acanthurus Tangs are "difficult" because: (a) Their mucous coat is reduced in composition (b) They are typically collected in crest zones, where oxygen levels are high.

(a) Translates to their skin being afforded little protection from theronts seeking to latch on. The thick slime coat of a wrasse, clownfish, mandarin is a much better shield.

(b) Translates to them needing O2 rich water, at least until they make the adjustment of being in captivity. If theronts invade the gills first, latch on and excess fluid builds up around the insertion points ... your Acanthurus Tang may die due to asphyxiation before you ever see evidence of ich on the body.

Quote
Chart
Minimum Tank Size: 125 gallons
Care Level: Moderate
Temperament: Semi-aggressive
Reef Compatible: Yes
Water Conditions: 72-78° F, dKH 8-12, pH 8.1-8.4, sg 1.020-1.025
Max. Size: 9"
Color Form: Blue
Diet: Herbivore

But not considered difficult. I am however in agreement with much of what you say and PB do catch WS very easily. Royal Grammas also pick up white spot easily but not as easy as PBs it's true. I have kept 3 pairs of RGs in my time and never had issues with WS with them or any of my other fish. I have kept a Regal tang for a number of years in my 140 gallon some years ago again with no WS issues, it cannot be coincidence that my fish stay free of WS, in fact my Midas came from an LFS who told me there was white spot in the particular bank of tanks it came from. The midas did flick for a couple of days then stopped but I never saw any spots on it.

 

[atoll]

I have used children's liquid vitamins in the past and the Abidec brand in particular which are readily available here in the UK.

 

[john.m.cole3]

Chloroquine phosphate isn't as harsh, but bot as easy to acquire.

TTM isn't entirely uneffective against some of the other parasites with the disease resistant fishes, because it is more difficult for the parasites to 'latch on.'

where would I start to look for chloraquine phosphate?

 

[Quah]

where would I start to look for chloraquine phosphate?

I believe it has to be obtained from a vet and there is another thread on it: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/ which has more info about it than I.

 

[NJHC]

The answer is no, don't believe anyone that will tell you differently. I had a hundred and 20 gallon beautiful coral reef tank over 25k invested between SPS every Coral beautiful fish known and then it happened iche. Never take the risk of adding fish into a tank without quarantine. This Hobby is not for those who want to take shortcuts.

I've heard that people won't QT wrasse or gobie fish with copper because they are sensitive to it. Does that mean they are not likely to get ich or velvet? do you know of any fish that are less likely to get those diseases? also what kinds of fish are not OK to QT with copper in general?

 

[4FordFamily]

Quote
Chart
Minimum Tank Size: 125 gallons
Care Level: Moderate
Temperament: Semi-aggressive
Reef Compatible: Yes
Water Conditions: 72-78° F, dKH 8-12, pH 8.1-8.4, sg 1.020-1.025
Max. Size: 9"
Color Form: Blue
Diet: Herbivore

But not considered difficult. I am however in agreement with much of what you say and PB do catch WS very easily. Royal Grammas also pick up white spot easily but not as easy as PBs it's true. I have kept 3 pairs of RGs in my time and never had issues with WS with them or any of my other fish. I have kept a Regal tang for a number of years in my 140 gallon some years ago again with no WS issues, it cannot be coincidence that my fish stay free of WS, in fact my Midas came from an LFS who told me there was white spot in the particular bank of tanks it came from. The midas did flick for a couple of days then stopped but I never saw any spots on it.

Again, it depends on the species. I kept a regal tang for years with ich present on many occasions easily. In my experience they're very susceptible initially and then can on occasion build a very strong resistance. I have had them for ten years in ich management tanks, my mother has as well she's had one 12 years in her tank that has fish die of ich left and right (she doesn't listen to anything I say and buys acanthurus tangs and fragile species)I've kept dozens of royal gramma so did many of my clients and they never succumbed to ich in a healthy environment otherwise.

I would say the easiest tangs to keep in ich management tanks are zebrasoma tangs, followed by hippo tangs (if smaller, fat, healthy, and in a clean environment), then some bristletooth tangs. Zebrasoma are much easier. My hippos I put in these systems would spend a few weeks progressively getting worse, some might even disappear for a few days after looking horrendous and clearly suffering and then emerge just fine a week later. I witnessed this 5-6 times over the years personally and in client tanks when I worked at an LFS. They're tougher than they get credit for but their nutritional needs need to be met or all of that goes out the window

 

[4FordFamily]

I should add that watching my hippos suffer over the years (not all of them did) like that to build their resistance was pretty evil and cold.

I won't lie I sort of expected other tangs other than zebrasoma to be able to do the same. Nope. In fact, a zebrasoma completely infested will probably succomb once they get to that point, IME

 

[Tristan]

I've heard that people won't QT wrasse or gobie fish with copper because they are sensitive to it. Does that mean they are not likely to get ich or velvet? do you know of any fish that are less likely to get those diseases? also what kinds of fish are not OK to QT with copper in general?

l

Saltwater Mollies. I had 3 in my 10g that I have to my petco. They were juveniles so no one panic. They were originally freshwater mollies that had been the babies of mollies that bred in my 25g freshwater.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Yes I understand where you are coming from however my philosophy is to keep small fish and although I did keep a yellow tang (yes I know its not as finicky as a PB) I sold it on after I used it to help get rid of some nuisance low growing Caulerpa I had. However, I do have a pair of Royal Grammas which are also known to be white spot attractive. Purple firefish and damsels also catch white spot but not in my tank it seems. I also have various gobbies including a partner yellow watchman and a partner candy stripped with their resident pistol shrimp. My Midas blenny is also a scaleless fish and are known to catch WS easily. None and I mean none of these fish have I ever seen any sign of disease like white spot. I have read many stories of Royal Grammas being very susceptible to white spot maybe not as much as a PB etc as you know are scaleless fish but none the less RGs are reported to pick up white spot very easily. Having said that I believe it's the way I keep and feed my fish etc that is the key to the health of my fish.

The reason that if you Google white spot or ich with royal grammas, firefish, and damsels and find many results is, not that these fish are overly susceptible to ich, it is that they are very, very, common. They aren't resistant, nor are they prone, they fall somewhere in the middle.

Tangs are most certainly not scaleless fish. They do, however, produce a thinner slime coat, which makes them more prone to having these parasites attach.

Good diet goes a long way to promoting a good immune system in fish. However, it does not eliminate the pathogen, it helps the fish ward it off. This is a fine method if a keeper is able to provide a relatively stress free environment. Unfortunately, as most hobbyists have learned the hard way, unexpected challenges can, and do arise. Power outages, equipment failure, an unusually unruly fish, all of these can provide stressors, which in turn can cause the fish to produce cortisol. This in turn inhibits the fish's immune system, making them more susceptible to the pathogens in the tank. This situation is manageable, but precarious.

It is similar to a healthy human. We are surrounded by disease and pathogens, but someone with a healthy immune system can usually handle it with little affect. In contrast though, a human's immune system is more complex.

The hobbyists that go decades without a proper qt and relying on just 'good nutrition' and manage to avoid a major outbreak are the exception and not the rule.

Quote
Chart
Minimum Tank Size: 125 gallons
Care Level: Moderate
Temperament: Semi-aggressive
Reef Compatible: Yes
Water Conditions: 72-78° F, dKH 8-12, pH 8.1-8.4, sg 1.020-1.025
Max. Size: 9"
Color Form: Blue
Diet: Herbivore

But not considered difficult. I am however in agreement with much of what you say and PB do catch WS very easily. Royal Grammas also pick up white spot easily but not as easy as PBs it's true. I have kept 3 pairs of RGs in my time and never had issues with WS with them or any of my other fish. I have kept a Regal tang for a number of years in my 140 gallon some years ago again with no WS issues, it cannot be coincidence that my fish stay free of WS, in fact my Midas came from an LFS who told me there was white spot in the particular bank of tanks it came from. The midas did flick for a couple of days then stopped but I never saw any spots on it.

The 'overview' provided for the powder blue above are an excellent example of where those charts can err. For the Diver's Den side of Live Aquaria, which pays a bit more attention to detail than the regular Live Aquaria, powder blues are listed as 'expert only'.