As LED Lighting Develops...

[Donovan Joannes]

The "best" disadvantages with current LED is full tweaking capabilities. MH & T5 is almost "plug & play" and considered fool proof as there is no tweaking needed on intensity (only height of fixtures above water line) and spectrum (except on bulb combination for T5). Other than that, LED is comparable to other lighting IF properly set.

 

[Larry L]

I think the original post missed on the issue of wattage. My Radion XR15's have roughly the same total wattage ratings as the T5's they replaced, but that's if they ran at full intensity. I don't have to run them anywhere near that bright to get as much PAR as I was getting from the T5's. Plus (as others have mentioned) they run cooler so I have been able to get rid of my chiller entirely.

 

[Reeflogic]

30-year reefer here as well, they all work and each light source over the last 20 years or so have worked at growing corals, some better than others. Marketing is marketing, if you MUST have the latest bells and whistles and you have money to burn, you upgrade with every new product. If you are like most people and find your tank is thriving with Gen 1 lights, no need to fix what isn't broken. Since switching from MH/T5 combos to LED's, I've burned through some cash trying to find an LED that produced the same desirable look that my MH/T5 combo had.

DIY from GroupBuyLED fixture cost me as much as a new Radion and I was never impressed with the spectrum, then there were a few less expensive brands trying to replace the DIY, ended up getting Kessils, loved the shimmer (really better than MH) but I felt it was missing the 420ish range and was just too blue, I needed a bit more "purple", sold the Kessils and went with G4 Radion Pros... Could not be happier. The power is there, the spectrum is there, the spread is there. Could they be better, sure... Maybe another 10 years of development and they truly will replace MH. I do love the crisp look of MH/T5, but the G4 Pro is pretty dang nice. I'm about to supplement with T5's for more SPS growth, but I cannot see ever going back to the MH combo.

As far as fancy online settings and what not, there are several presets built in with most high-end LEDs that are literally just as much a plug and play as any T5/MH combo. In fact, I really detest having to change bulbs out and cleaning the MH glass, etc. So everyone has their own opinion, but at the end of the day, they all grow coral

Great thread, by the way, I love when everyone can "just get along!" Reef on!

 

[Mark Gray]

30-year reefer here as well, they all work and each light source over the last 20 years or so have worked at growing corals, some better than others. Marketing is marketing, if you MUST have the latest bells and whistles and you have money to burn, you upgrade with every new product. If you are like most people and find your tank is thriving with Gen 1 lights, no need to fix what isn't broken. Since switching from MH/T5 combos to LED's, I've burned through some cash trying to find an LED that produced the same desirable look that my MH/T5 combo had.

DIY from GroupBuyLED fixture cost me as much as a new Radion and I was never impressed with the spectrum, then there were a few less expensive brands trying to replace the DIY, ended up getting Kessils, loved the shimmer (really better than MH) but I felt it was missing the 420ish range and was just too blue, I needed a bit more "purple", sold the Kessils and went with G4 Radion Pros... Could not be happier. The power is there, the spectrum is there, the spread is there. Could they be better, sure... Maybe another 10 years of development and they truly will replace MH. I do love the crisp look of MH/T5, but the G4 Pro is pretty dang nice. I'm about to supplement with T5's for more SPS growth, but I cannot see ever going back to the MH combo.

As far as fancy online settings and what not, there are several presets built in with most high-end LEDs that are literally just as much a plug and play as any T5/MH combo. In fact, I really detest having to change bulbs out and cleaning the MH glass, etc. So everyone has their own opinion, but at the end of the day, they all grow coral

Great thread, by the way, I love when everyone can "just get along!" Reef on!

I agree and if you don't like the color you can change it and oh yes I remember all you talked about I broke a MH bulb over my tank one time lol

 

[happyhourhero]

I just happened to get lucky and live by and started buying corals early on from a guy who started to produce his own lights and had an amazing tank. Now he sells thousands of the lights and owns the best lfs on the gulf coast. After seeing his tank and what his lights can do, I'll never have a reason to switch.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

30-year reefer here as well, they all work and each light source over the last 20 years or so have worked at growing corals, some better than others. Marketing is marketing, if you MUST have the latest bells and whistles and you have money to burn, you upgrade with every new product. If you are like most people and find your tank is thriving with Gen 1 lights, no need to fix what isn't broken. Since switching from MH/T5 combos to LED's, I've burned through some cash trying to find an LED that produced the same desirable look that my MH/T5 combo had.

DIY from GroupBuyLED fixture cost me as much as a new Radion and I was never impressed with the spectrum, then there were a few less expensive brands trying to replace the DIY, ended up getting Kessils, loved the shimmer (really better than MH) but I felt it was missing the 420ish range and was just too blue, I needed a bit more "purple", sold the Kessils and went with G4 Radion Pros... Could not be happier. The power is there, the spectrum is there, the spread is there. Could they be better, sure... Maybe another 10 years of development and they truly will replace MH. I do love the crisp look of MH/T5, but the G4 Pro is pretty dang nice. I'm about to supplement with T5's for more SPS growth, but I cannot see ever going back to the MH combo.

As far as fancy online settings and what not, there are several presets built in with most high-end LEDs that are literally just as much a plug and play as any T5/MH combo. In fact, I really detest having to change bulbs out and cleaning the MH glass, etc. So everyone has their own opinion, but at the end of the day, they all grow coral

Great thread, by the way, I love when everyone can "just get along!" Reef on!

Great info and thanks for sharing your experience. [emoji2]

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

I think if I switched from LED to MH and fell even more in love with my tank, my wife would leave me.

Hahaha rofl!!

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

I think MH are great as I used them on my first tank, keep in mind that 190watt led does not normally run at 190watt most people that use them run their LEDs between 50-75% of output...

Absolutely true and good point. Actually they might even run at less then 50%. Too much light is unhealthy for coral as we've seen on the investigations on BRS TV. Point is that (as said above) even if LEDs are rated with a wattage that is comparable to other fixture types, they're not necessarily running at that wattage and most probably running at a much lower power consumption setting. So don't be misled by the power rating on the LED product, as other fixtures are not dimmable and they absolutely do save money on power. That hasn't changed.
LED lights also use more power than they need to because they need a power supply to convert A/C to D/C to be able to use standard household power sockets in homes.

Where LEDs excel is on nano tanks. Really practical on those size tanks.

I'm still working on getting my lights to (completely) work on a solar powered system, this is the reason for my interest in LEDs. They work on DC power natively, something fluorescent and MH can't ever do. Given a little time, I'll be able to perfect this. I just figured I'd throw this out there because it really is an atypical quality not found in other fixture types but I know this is not something that most reefers consider when buying. Though, I think once this becomes a little more common, more and more people will identify with it.

 

[Alfrareef]

Great thread and so lucky reefers are to have 3 different technologies to choose for coral husbandry.
As per myself I'm on a led journey just because power and heat reduction, after all we must save energy.... and if I can do this and still save money, that's the road I'll follow.
What I still miss it's more "understandable" information about led fixture impact over corals. I only get PAR maps or single led (color spectrum) analysis.

 

[Mark Gray]

Absolutely true and good point. Actually they might even run at less then 50%. Too much light is unhealthy for coral as we've seen on the investigations on BRS TV. Point is that (as said above) even if LEDs are rated with a wattage that is comparable to other fixture types, they're not necessarily running at that wattage and most probably running at a much lower power consumption setting. So don't be misled by the power rating on the LED product, as other fixtures are not dimmable and they absolutely do save money on power. That hasn't changed.
LED lights also use more power than they need to because they need a power supply to convert A/C to D/C to be able to use standard household power sockets in homes.

Where LEDs excel is on nano tanks. Really practical on those size tanks.

I'm still working on getting my lights to (completely) work on a solar powered system, this is the reason for my interest in LEDs. They work on DC power natively, something fluorescent and MH can't ever do. Given a little time, I'll be able to perfect this. I just figured I'd throw this out there because it really is an atypical quality not found in other fixture types but I know this is not something that most reefers consider when buying. Though, I think once this becomes a little more common, more and more people will identify with it.

Nice Idea have you ever run T5's or MH I noticed you are in the Phillipines and I remember how hot it gets there

 

[Doubbler]

I found a really good led light. Jbj orion Lt 120. There are only two channels for color, but their are three different blues, controlled on the blue channel, and two colors on the white channel. Once dialed in to 20 white 70 blue, ramping up to 30 white 70 blue, I've noticed great growth and color with sps. Turning things from red to green to purple.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

@ripvanwinkle Agreed on LEDs being perfect for Nano tanks. I completely agree that a halide would be total overkill for a nano in almost all cases. I will say though that there are some nice 24"-36" T5 HO fixtures that can work well over longer c Nano tanks. Sunlight supply, who left the aquarium game to focus on hydro has a Sunblaze T5HO fixture that looks decent and has good quality reflectors, very reasonable price. I had actually ordered their 8 bulb unit for my 50 Cube but the vendor sent the 4 bulb mistakenly and while I was waiting on the refund,I came across a great deal on the Hamilton Mogul style Halide so that was that.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Nice Idea have you ever run T5's or MH I noticed you are in the Phillipines and I remember how hot it gets there

Yeah I'm sure with the power bill I would get, Meralco would love me. Second the problem is not so much the heat here, it's the way that things are built, meaning the construction. You know,... we make pizza ovens with cinder blocks too. Guess what you get when you build a house that way? LOL

I haven't seen very many places carry MH lights. Japan, yes but here, ....I'm trying to remember if I've ever been to a shop where they've displayed MH stock on their shelves. And the thing is about the reef hobby here, pretty much no one can afford to run a reef tank in their home. One day I'll make a vid when I go to Cartimar and I'll show you what LFSs look like here. You'll be floored (it's bad).

 

[Mark Gray]

Yeah I'm sure with the power bill I would get, Meralco would love me. Second the problem is not so much the heat here, it's the way that things are built, meaning the construction. You know,... we make pizza ovens with cinder blocks too. Guess what you get when you build a house that way? LOL

I haven't seen very many places carry MH lights. Japan, yes but here, ....I'm trying to remember if I've ever been to a shop where they've displayed MH stock on their shelves. And the thing is about the reef hobby here, pretty much no one can afford to run a reef tank in their home. One day I'll make a vid when I go to Cartimar and I'll show you what LFSs look like here. You'll be floored (it's bad).

I understand I have not ever seen any shops there I have spent a good amount of time in Thailand, shops are not good there ether.

 

[hart24601]

Into something that can match the growth and color of it's competitors, it's list of advantages over them are shrinking. A Radion G4 Pro is 190 watts. A 8 bulb T5 HO 24" is 192 watts. Then you've got a HQI Phoenix halide at 150w, or a Radium halide at 250w. Only 60 watts difference. I won't mention a 400 watt halide because there is no comparison there.
Can a Radion G4 Pro match the color and growth of those alternatives? The selling point of LED used to be low energy consumption. That's gone now. The other selling point used to be less heat. Also, not really an issue. I've got a $22 dollar low profile, low watt eBay fan quietly eleminating all heat transfer.
So what is left? You can tweek the spectrum? I'm a busy guy. I have zero interest in worrying about my spectrum and intensity. Bulbs last a long time? That may be the last true advantage. But then consider that your LED only gives decent color and growth, so you've got to buy the next model when it comes out to get better growth and color so will you ever see any benefit from that longevity?
Local hobbyists I've talked to lately have asked me regarding my recent tank build: "Dude, why halide?" and I've replied "I just love the look and growth of a Radium." Which is absolutely true. But the other reason is that as an observer of the hobby and LED technology over the last ten years, I'm still not sold on it and as time has passed you would expect the technology to improve to the point that there would be no doubt about those benefits and we'd come to find even more of them as it improved. But that hasn't been the case, has it? A lot of people are returning to T5 HO or Halide. Or spending a ton of money trying to find a better LED fixture than what they bought first.
That's all I got. Just been thinking about this lately and wanted to start a discussion on it. Not trying to troll or **** off fans of LED lighting. So, what say you?

I do want to say that when looking at the watts as a benchmark that the radion would be running all channels at 100% - however most run whites (including reds and such) much lower than the blues so that drops the wattage being pulled and really not many people run the other blue channels at 100% either which further reduces watts. Perhaps a watts to par ratio would be more fitting at the LED spectrum most run (SPS AB+ program).

You personally have no interest in changing spectrum and that is totally fine, but it's also equally valid that someone would want to change spectrums or have it change during the day to give different viewing experiences and maybe even some moonlight settings. If someone doesn't care about that then it's totally fine too but that is one thing that LEDs can offer.

As other have pointed out you don't need to get new LED fixtures when next gen comes out. If you feel obligated to do that then it's ok, but no one needs to.

The great part of the hobby right now is we have options and there are amazing tanks that use all sorts of equipment or combinations of equipment. There are some people that enjoy spending money on the hobby and that will forever be changing light/pumps/controllers - it's part of the fun for them and again, it's 100% cool if that is what they enjoy.

 

[Brad Bessett]

In the past I have used Kessil and Radion G3's and made the change to T5 with LED Actinic bars about 4 months ago. Summer is in full swing here in Texas and I can definitely tell the AC in the house is working much harder, but my tank (specifically SPS) has also never looked better. Coming from the Radions, within a week, all of my SPS started the glorious transition and were fully colored up within a month. With the Radions they looked nice, but were lacking in color. Yes, the added heat from T5 hurts, but my corals have never looked better. And as a collector who also sells, the increase in profits by selling fully colored frags has been a major plus and negates the downsides for me.

 

[bobman]

I have used every type of light under the sun. I still have some 250 watt MH in the fish closet. The thing I didnt see anyone take into consideration is tank depth. Leds are not ideal for tanks 24"+ deep. T5 even struggles. Led and t5 work and great for shallower tanks but not deep tanks. With that said the best large tank I have seen to date and far as growth and viewing pleasure had all 3. It had 250 watt MH for your primary white lights and radion in between the MH which gave it a purpleish tint then supplemented by actinics down the sides of the tank. Tank is over 30" deep and had great growth throughout the tank and looks amazing. Right now I only have a smaller seahorse/reef so LEDs to the trick but I do plan on getting me another large tank and thats why I just cant get rid of my MH you just cant compare to them. I do see though finding bulbs for mh is getting increasingly more scarce since there is just not a huge demand for them anymore. That is something to consider also.

 

[Flippers4pups]

My two cents worth is that I also have run every lighting system under the sun from MH, T8's, PC's, VHO's, T5's and now LEDS, over the years. Just the cost of replacing bulbs every year was killing me. Last T5 system was costing me $200+ every 8-12 months a year! The modded mars aquas I'm running now are producing excellent color, very good growth and polyp extension. I'm very happy with them and, me personally, wouldn't go back to anything else now.

 

[bobman]

Thats the one downside to T5 is you have a lot of bulbs to replace. MH usually just 2-3. I have run marsaqua right now I am running a sbreef which is similar. What I have found with these LEDs is the diodes tend to give out after about a year or 2 (some can last longer) and so will the drivers. At that point it will cost the same or more than replacing a few mh bulbs every year.

But then again you run into the depth of the tank issue. (Most LEDs and mars is no exception) are great up to a little over 18" after that par will start dropping very quickly. You can turn the intensity up to compensate but then you are blasting the higher up portions of the rock almost making it pretty much unusable. I have run marsaqua on a 150 tall thats 30" deep and it did work pretty well. I was very limited to what I could put on the sand bed but they did do the trick.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Thats the one downside to T5 is you have a lot of bulbs to replace. MH usually just 2-3. I have run marsaqua right now I am running a sbreef which is similar. What I have found with these LEDs is the diodes tend to give out after about a year or 2 (some can last longer) and so will the drivers. At that point it will cost the same or more than replacing a few mh bulbs every year.

But then again you run into the depth of the tank issue. (Most LEDs and mars is no exception) are great up to a little over 18" after that par will start dropping very quickly. You can turn the intensity up to compensate but then you are blasting the higher up portions of the rock almost making it pretty much unusable. I have run marsaqua on a 150 tall thats 30" deep and it did work pretty well. I was very limited to what I could put on the sand bed but they did do the trick.

Haven't seen anyone reporting failures with diodes(except true UV diodes burning out from modding ) or drivers with the Chinese black boxes. They have been out now since 2012-13 ish. I've been all over the internet for a couple of years researching them and haven't seen what your referring to. Got any examples/links that you would be willing to share?