Asking for Advice: Who Do You Listen To?

Reefer Matt

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One of the nice things about community forums and groups are the diverse opinions and experiences of each Reefer. However things can get confusing quick for those looking for specific answers to a problem. While there are many ways to reef, how do you navigate all the conflicting info given?
 
I try to read all the info I can on the matter. Things are never quite as simple as answering or asking a question like “how do I lower phosphates”. One person would suggest not to feed so much and another might say change you filter socks and someone else would just say do a water change. Sometimes it’s realizing that that is what worked for them in their situation. Telling someone with high phosphates to clean their filter sock more often doesn’t do any good if they don’t have a filter sock. I try to educate myself as much as possible and then do what my gut tells me.
 
I look for a stated best practices method/approach to be applied in several other people's tanks in order to vet the information for accuracy vs bias

for example

if someone says, do X and your corals will grow astoundingly fast, and they link their own system as the proof, I rate that low on validity. if instead they post a thread of 100 other people's reefs doing X and there's a high degree of significant growth rates, for other people, that's a high validity claim

same for quarantine/disease methods. if someone says 'I don't quarantine' and they post their tank as the best practices example, yet the disease forum shows what happens when res publica stops quarantining, that strikes me as an unvetted claim for the masses to consider.

or best sandbed practices for sure...someone with a 25 year untouched deep sandbed should easily, easily be able to garner the same results for others by describing their method and 100+ other people in an actual focus study should be able to get years and years with no trouble. we all know sandbeds don't work that way: they're highly variable. what it takes to streamline 100+ other people's tanks for sandbed control is very different than the Jaubert, Berlin or any common method from the 90s.


anytime someone is using their own tank as a proof be weary/hard to convince

but anytime someone is showing you a link with 100 other reefs running a best claims practice, and winning, consider that claim pretty strong.

it's not that people's claims about what works best for them are false

it's that the conveying the nuances of those best methods to others is very very very hard.

look for the pattern: are best practices claimants posting their own tank testimony + pics, or pics from other people's tanks and their testimony> what I see in the claims field is nearly 99% always someone's own tank at home, where they control all variables on disclosure.


having to collate the stated outcomes from 100 other people makes it very hard to control what's disclosed as a best practice.
 
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i try to keep my information coming from one source, which right now is an awesome person in my local reefing community who offered to help me out. i am a huge over-thinker and googler, and that inevitably leads to me being super overwhelmed and stressed out, which leads me to make rash decisions without thinking them through. having one source of information greatly cuts down on that (IME, obviously).
 
I ignore all advice given and learn everything through making my own mistakes. It's costly, but effective. :cool:

Not really.

Usually I will look up the issue online to find people who have experienced the same issue...then I'll research their solutions to the problem and take some time to consider whether it would work for my situation. I've learned to never impulsively do something with my aquarium...that usually leads to more problems.
 
Luckily I'm able to pick the brains of experienced reefers in the industry, who grow corals or raise fish as their living and produce in mass for farms or grow outs. In addition reliable hobbyists who grow wonderful tanks and are very very passionate about their reefs health. I can also fall back on my own experience...
But this is usually how the process goes when trying to find reliable information.

  • I will usually start by looking around the internet and seeing what the consensus of answers may be. This can help me take in new perspectives, and get an idea of where a solution could be found alot of this process is done on R2R!.
  • Afterward I usually tend to ask those around me what experience they have with the problem at hand and ask questions.. "did you have X problem?" "What did you do to combat the X problem?" "did this solve your X problem? or was it a band aid solution?" "what would you do given my situation?" Or if its trying to get reliable information on certain products as well just asking what someone's experience with X product was.
There will always be conflicting information though, tanks and parameters very so wildly sometimes. Sometimes you just have to get into the dirt and try something for yourself with educated guesses or with the facts you have in front of you.
 
When giving advice, I use a combination of my personal experience and a general, proven consensus from fellow reefers who've had similar experiences. A big red flag IME is someone with a tanked packed with SPS colonies that have barely encrusted and rocks that aren't totally covered in coralline, saying "I've got it all figured out." There's a lot of illusion in this hobby and it's not hard to keep SPS alive for a few months.
 
There are so many avenues available for gaining information, from online sources to books and magazines that there is no need to make hasty decisions. Research and knowledge are essential when dealing with livestock and we should put in the time, do the research and weigh the pros and cons. I'll listen to all advice, but in the end must take it upon myself to make educated decisions. Common sense often comes in handy.
 
…. and there’s the forum psych of am I asking for confirmation bias, to shoot down every other persons response, to grasp at straws and take actions based on a singular source regardless, or to actually listen and gather data to make a better informed decision?
 
Depends on the subject and it is pretty easy to tell who KNOWS what they are talking about and those that PRETEND they know.

Seeing them have a nice tank is a plus but hardly a necessity. Some of the dumbest people I have ever talked to in this hobby have stores/grow outs/own a company in the industry. If they can't semi explain the science behind their methods, they don't know what they are actually doing
 
The internet is full of garbage.

There’s only like… 6 people on this entire forum I really trust. The other 499,994 people are clueless or making it up.

If someone doesn’t have a build thread or never posts pictures of their tanks, DO NOT trust them. This includes many popular posters we all know with like 10,000+ posts.

I don’t even trust many of the “experts” here.

The people I trust most are @jda, @OrionN, @Humblefish, @Coral Euphoria , etc because they are consistent and transparent.
 
You must mean Randy from the chem forum then, using that logic?


anyone seen a picture of his tank in the last 5+ years? He doesn’t have one, yet I trust him. Peoples reefs pics from home do not factor

only what they do for others factors, and the uncontrolled unfiltered feedback others give after applying methods from pros who don’t post pics of their tank or might not even have one currently


how about Jay…who’s seen his reef tank lately in pics/ he runs hundreds of pages for others as work threads in the disease forum and the feedback from others: best on the web, tied with Humblefish in fact for disease control. I’m sure HF has a reef but I haven’t seen it, because he spends time working in others tanks getting the best feedback and results on the internet for the kind of work done in pattern
 
You must mean Randy from the chem forum then, using that logic?


anyone seen a picture of his tank in the last 5+ years? He doesn’t have one, yet I trust him. Peoples reefs pics from home do not factor

only what they do for others factors


how about Jay, who’s seen his reef tank lately in pics/ he runs hundreds of pages for others as work threads in the disease forum

I trust Randy’s 2 part recipe. He’s a chemist. Would I ask him how to quarantine my Achilles tang? No. How to light my acros? No. I have no idea what he does beyond chemistry and that’s fine.

Jay, sure I’ve seen plenty of posts by him I disagree with. Even about quarantining my Achilles tang. So what, no big deal.

I’ve been on Reef Central 24 years. I’ve seen many internet experts crowned, dethroned, ridiculed, forgotten. They won’t be the last.

If the last few years have taught me anything, it is “do not blindly trust experts”. Follow people who have visible success to back up what they say and who share their methodologies freely. That applies to the internet or real life. Just two cents from someone who has jumped on many bandwagons and has the burn marks to prove it.
 
I thought Thales was a long-standing good poster from reefcentral days, reefs.org days/ currently reef beef days. I remember you posting on rc as well in early 2000s Ken. Thales and I had a couple beefs here and there over cycling but it didn’t sway my take on him as a strong Jedi reefer, ‘beefin is part of the evolution of practice and fun for type honing. He dang sure has a wall of reefs in his house currently that’s for sure. A good pro
 
The hobby has come along way throughout the years and many things we didn’t have back in the day like online reef clubs, internet to look things up , knowledgeable lfs , etc.
We are still learning new ways and coming up with products to sustain life of coral and fish . The assortment of equipment , fish , inverts , and coral we have available today that we didn’t have decades ago let alone the knowledge to keep them alive is astounding . I do know that what works for one may not work for another and I try to keep that in mind when I read some responses . Overall I take my own experiences ie: successes/ failures and listen to others and if I hear something thats new and makes sense I might try to implement to see if it works for me . Great time to be in the hobby :cool:
 
TBH, I've been in the hobby for 30 years, give or take.
I really don't look for any advice. I may have a question or thought but I look to my resources for my answer generally. Unless I want a more quick answer, I go here. RHF, is a great resource for sciences and chemical stuff.
I'm not afraid to experiment. Not to toot my own horn(but you asked) I really think hard and long and research about most stuff before implementing.
 

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