At a stalemate with cyano/PO4

[Sherman]

Just done last 2 week

 

[cracker]

@angninsoon Please let us know how it works for You .






1

 

[BigJohnny]

Just done last 2 week

Can you please elaborate?

 

[Sherman]

Usually when have cynao we will black out and blowoff and siphon off.
I find this affect the other livestock especially SPS.

Then I read someone said you dose nitrate so that good algae and SPS will bloom
and bad algae and bacteria will lose the battle.

So last 2 week I experience cynao bloom. I still blow off and siphon out.
But I never black out and reduce feeding.
I continue feeding as usual and dose nitrate . Now the cynao bloom greatly reduce
I hope this is not luck or co incident.
But for this round it actually work

 

[BigJohnny]

Usually when have cynao we will black out and blowoff and siphon off.
I find this affect the other livestock especially SPS.

Then I read someone said you dose nitrate so that good algae and SPS will bloom
and bad algae and bacteria will lose the battle.

So last 2 week I experience cynao bloom. I still blow off and siphon out.
But I never black out and reduce feeding.
I continue feeding as usual and dose nitrate . Now the cynao bloom greatly reduce
I hope this is not luck or co incident.
But for this round it actually work

Cool thanks. What form of nitrate did you dose? Sodium nitrate, potassium nitrate, calcium nitrate, etc? What was your dosage and how often?

Did you test nitrate or just dose?
Did you test po4 before during or after?

Thanks!

 

[Sherman]

I dose 1 ml of KNO3. My tank is AIO 50 G
Yes during that the time when cynao bloom PO4 is 106 (Hanna ULR)ppb. NO3 is 10 ppm(Salifert)

 

[Ben Pedersen]

I used to get cyano break outs often but haven't had a single one since I started topping off with kalk and vinegar water. For years I just used Kalk water but it didnt bring my calcium levels up high enough. Adding vinegar to the kalc powder before mixing it into RO water increases calcium, alkalinity and decreases nutrients. As soon as I started doing this my cyano disappeared and hasn't been back.

You need to be cautious when adding vinegar. I started by adding 1 cup vinegar, 1/3 cup Kalc powder and 5 gallons of water. This boosted my calcium and alkalinity but decreased nutrients in my tank to the point that my micro alge and corals started to loose color. I dialed back the vinegar to 1/3 cup and everything is great and no more cyano. If you use vinegar, you should test your alkalinity often until you dial in how much your tank needs. It's better to start with less vinegar and increase as needed.

This works for me.

 

[Sherman]

Vinegar is carbon right? Too much will have cynao unless your bacteria is enough

 

[BigJohnny]

I dose 1 ml of KNO3. My tank is AIO 50 G
Yes during that the time when cynao bloom PO4 is 106 (Hanna ULR)ppb. NO3 is 10 ppm(Salifert)

1 ml of what concentration solution? KNO3 is a powder so 1ml doesn't reveal much, unless you are using a branded product? How often did you dose?

How long ago did you test NO3 and PO4 and have you tested them after dosing the nitrate for two weeks?

Thanks!

 

[BigJohnny]

I used to get cyano break outs often but haven't had a single one since I started topping off with kalk and vinegar water. For years I just used Kalk water but it didnt bring my calcium levels up high enough. Adding vinegar to the kalc powder before mixing it into RO water increases calcium, alkalinity and decreases nutrients. As soon as I started doing this my cyano disappeared and hasn't been back.

You need to be cautious when adding vinegar. I started by adding 1 cup vinegar, 1/3 cup Kalc powder and 5 gallons of water. This boosted my calcium and alkalinity but decreased nutrients in my tank to the point that my micro alge and corals started to loose color. I dialed back the vinegar to 1/3 cup and everything is great and no more cyano. If you use vinegar, you should test your alkalinity often until you dial in how much your tank needs. It's better to start with less vinegar and increase as needed.

This works for me.

Interesting because many people get cyano from carbon dosing.

 

[Ben Pedersen]

Vinegar is carbon right? Too much will have cynao unless your bacteria is enough

Yes, vinegar is a carbon source. I would assume that any established tank that is being fed would have enough bacteria.

I used to have epic cyano out breaks to the point that it would cover almost all of my sand, even in high flow areas. After using vinegar the cyano completely disappeared. I would assume because the nutrient levels decreased. The only concern is that if you use too much vinegar your water can be too clean and that's not good for your corals (I have an SPS dominated tank).

I had heard some say that it could cause cyano but that is not what I have experienced. I have been reef keeping for over 30 years.

 

[Sherman]

1 ml of what concentration solution? KNO3 is a powder so 1ml doesn't reveal much, unless you are using a branded product? How often did you dose?

How long ago did you test NO3 and PO4 and have you tested them after dosing the nitrate for two weeks?

Thanks!

Oh my KNO3 is in liquid form. The concentration I need check the website of the product.
I dose every 2 days.
The PO4 and NO3 reading was when cynao was blooming.
Have not test both after dosing

 

[Sherman]

Yes, vinegar is a carbon source. I would assume that any established tank that is being fed would have enough bacteria.

I used to have epic cyano out breaks to the point that it would cover almost all of my sand, even in high flow areas. After using vinegar the cyano completely disappeared. I would assume because the nutrient levels decreased. The only concern is that if you use too much vinegar your water can be too clean and that's not good for your corals (I have an SPS dominated tank).

I had heard some say that it could cause cyano but that is not what I have experienced. I have been reef keeping for over 30 years.

Something very different from what I learn so far.
I will take note and try out when cynao decide to visit again

 

[nycjwi]

Make sure your RODI water is at zero, make sure you are using good salt like Red Sea blue container. You should always make your own salt. Don't rely on water from LFS. I would suck out as much of the cyan as possible, do multiple Large water changes over a series of two or more weeks, get some phosguard running. Im running a nano tank and introduced red dragon algae to control nitrates and phosphate levels. Dose two part to maintain all at 8.0 and things should correct themselves. Also make sure you have enough powerheadsfor good flow and no dead spots. I believe you have to have some kind of algae like chaeto or red dragon in refugio or display tank with good light to control nitrate/phosphates. Also if you are running Nano tank make sure you are keeping the back clean of debris etc. Also Dr Tim's Waste Away works wonders for controlling debris. Its a natural bacteria. I personally have never had good luck with Chemicals / NOPOX. These things may solve one problem but generally lead to another.

 

[jasonrusso]

Usually when have cynao we will black out and blowoff and siphon off.
I find this affect the other livestock especially SPS.

Then I read someone said you dose nitrate so that good algae and SPS will bloom
and bad algae and bacteria will lose the battle.

So last 2 week I experience cynao bloom. I still blow off and siphon out.
But I never black out and reduce feeding.
I continue feeding as usual and dose nitrate . Now the cynao bloom greatly reduce
I hope this is not luck or co incident.
But for this round it actually work

Don't you get GHA?

 

[Sallstrom]

I think it's more important to look at the tank and its parameters instead of looking for a quick solution. Yes, we dose KNO3 if nitrate gets too low(IMO that's usually when we see that some cyano is coming. Sometimes at 2ppm and sometimes at 0,5 ppm). But we also dose KH2PO4 when phosphate gets to low(we have a 26000L reef/bamboo shark tank that we "treated " with carbon source and KH2PO4 for about 3 months to get the nitrate and phosphate to 4 ppm and 0,04. And the small outbreak of cyano disappeared).
But just dosing and adjusting NO3 and PO4 isn't enough IMO. It's important to keep as many parameters as possible stable for a long time. And to have patience(yes, I know, it's boring ). I've seen cyano outbreaks caused by change of light schedules for example.
So my advice is look at your tank and try to figure out how to make a change for the better, and don't try to copy anyone else's method completely.

I know I think of larger tanks when I write about this stuff(worked at public aquariums for 10+ years, still do), so I'm aware of that smaller tanks could use different solutions. So take that in consideration

IMO using medication or chemicals with unknown ingredients in a reef tank might not always be a great idea. I've stopped doing that. Sure, the algae or Cyanobacteria you want to get rid of might disappear, but what more happens in your tank? IMO you risk the stability in your tank, which might give you cyano or dinos. Or corals and fish might get affected.
So what I prefer to do is to try to adjust the parameters and keep them stable for a long time, to get rid of what might cause cyano(quick changes or low nutrients).

Sometimes you might get cyano when there's high nutrients in a tank, that's another story But stability might help in that case too IMO.

About the red turf algae on the pictures. I think urchins will eat those. At least they did in our tank with similar algaes.

Sorry for a long post.. Just one more thing
Together with stable water parameters, I like the animals to the work in the tank instead of me(or medication/chemicals). There's a lot of options when it comes to a clean up crew. In our large tanks different sea urchins, tangs and rabbitfish to a great job. Smaller tanks might need other CUC I know.

I hope this makes some sense. I just woke up

/ David

 

[BigJohnny]

Yes, vinegar is a carbon source. I would assume that any established tank that is being fed would have enough bacteria.

I used to have epic cyano out breaks to the point that it would cover almost all of my sand, even in high flow areas. After using vinegar the cyano completely disappeared. I would assume because the nutrient levels decreased. The only concern is that if you use too much vinegar your water can be too clean and that's not good for your corals (I have an SPS dominated tank).

I had heard some say that it could cause cyano but that is not what I have experienced. I have been reef keeping for over 30 years.

Do you know what your no3 and po4 was at before you started adding the vinegar by any chance?

 

[BigJohnny]

Oh my KNO3 is in liquid form. The concentration I need check the website of the product.
I dose every 2 days.
The PO4 and NO3 reading was when cynao was blooming.
Have not test both after dosing

Ah gotcha. I am very curious to know what the equivalent ppm for no3 you were/are dosing, as well as what your testable no3 and po4 levels are now. If you find out please let us know.

Thanks!

 

[Ben Pedersen]

Do you know what your no3 and po4 was at before you started adding the vinegar by any chance?

Sorry, I don't.

 

[jasonrusso]

Since I started dosing nopox on Sunday, my PO4 seems like it has risen from 0.04 to 0.07. Could I have exhausted my phosguard in a week?

Cyano is persistent and keeps growing back. Very disheartening to be honest.

I have the chemiclean on the shelf but I am hesitant to use it.